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[2.97b] Ki Woke

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[2.97b] Misplaced badge

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[v2.97b] Turn Order Shena...

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Dark Moshers

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Rune Magician love

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  Evoker Tune Up
Posted by: Druby - 02-13-2025, 11:24 AM - Forum: Balance Fu - Replies (1)

To put my point up front, I feel like Evoker (and to a slight extent the Mage base class) is lacking in comparison to most of its Mage Advanced Promotion alternatives. 

Evoker used to be a major powerhouse, and while it isn't a deadweight class in any regards in its current state, it's definitely lost the majority of its bite with a number of nerfs that have been applied to it over time. Between the nerf to Impure Element, cutting down on the ability to gouge a singular element, and the change of Charge Mind to be Excel effects and no longer affecting Invocations, Evoker is really starting to show some cracks. 

Addressing the Mage base class issue I had brought up initially first, both Evoker and Mage are heavily tied to a singular element based off their enchant. While there are many other skills that have certain benefits when running different enchants, these are often more of useful utility than a major component of the ability. There are exceptions of course, but in general, Shinken always works as Shinken, being a 10 tile ranged projectile attack. Adding an enchant simply makes it create certain tile effects, makes the projectile larger, or adds additional projectiles, or makes it homing. But Shinken functions is largely the same way no matter which enchant you apply to it, and simply gets an additional bonus.

This is not how it works for Mage and Evoker spells. You MUST have the appropriate enchant or else the spell in question often functions at some form of reduced effectiveness. Fir loses its explosion AoE, Lightning spells no longer apply interference or apply lightning crits, earth spells don't apply magnetize, and so on. You get nothing at all from having the wrong enchant, and quite often this makes many of these spells a lot less effective. This makes Mage/Evoker often feel like you're playing an elementalist instead, as you're very often locked into a single element instead of being freely able to choose whichever spell applies for a given scenario, because without the enchant, a lot of them lose much of their utility.

Let's compare this to two of Evoker's competitors in the Mage Advanced Classes, Hexer and Rune Mage. Both are considered extremely powerful classes in their own right, and both can be often played in ways that not only outstrip Evoker in terms of damage, but also do not have the same restrictions when it comes to enchants for utility. Rune Mage, even without building their rune arrays, have a massive amount of buff/debuff potential from their runes which require no enchant at all to function. Meanwhile, Hexer gets its entire array of extremely debilitating debuffs combined with the damage that comes from casting the spell in the first place, without the requirement for any enchant either. Playing them with an enchant certainly helps, but it is by no means a requirement like it is for Evoker.

The loss of Charge Mind was also another major hit to Evoker, as it (maybe arguably) hits probably the primary class fantasy of Evoker. That being Invocations. Evoker is the singular class in the game with the most invocations available to it. However... With both Impure Element and Charge Mind now gone for invokes, there's very little reason to run half of the invokes provided. For the majority of invocations out of Evoker, you are not getting damage output comparable to momentum spent casting, even with High-Speed Divine Words sometimes. An Exgalfa often times loses out in damage compared to simply spamming Sear for the same amount of momentum spent. There is some value to be had in terms of "storing" damage through invoking for some turns when it's inadvisable to close in or you are being kited, but there are a variety of other buffs/buttons that an Evoker has competing for that time, like Charge Mind which directly amps up the generally more efficient option of simply hitting your primary damage spells to begin with.

Most invocations out of Evoker used now are for the utility, and you primarily see Vydel (for the reposition, KD, and long range) or Intensify Cold (50% ice weakness is pretty solid no matter what). Exgalfa and Overload are nearly never used at all as they're single target spells that just do not match up to the momentum spent casting them often, even with the proper enchant on. I understand there's a certain amount of give and take when it comes to balancing, trying to keep these spells from becoming OHKOs like they sometimes were in their heyday, but now the invocations out of Evoker are either basically not used at all, or only used in niche situations, which heavily detracts from it being the "invocation class". The (generally agreed upon) most powerful invokes in the game aren't even in the Evoker class, like Divine Shower or Enma's Summons.

Evoker as it is functions very well as a class that pads out the weakness or serving as support to another class. Lazarus Wind and Greaper combined means it can help buff up invokes from other classes very nicely, and Absorb Power means you will nearly never run out of FP if you run Evoker as a main class, but you're not often running Evoker to play Evoker, and instead because it synergizes well with another concept instead.

To summarize, Evoker lacks damage and is relatively restrictive to play compared to other higher hitting Mage Advanced Classes without anything in return like defensive options or other utility, and does not play into its class fantasy very well, often being relegated as a support for another class or build idea instead. 

I think Evoker deserves its own pass through to help bring it up to speed, but a couple of "quick fixes" I'd like to bring up would be to remove or at least loosen up the enchantment restrictions placed upon spells in both Mage and Evoker. Maybe something similar to how it works with other abilities where having ANY enchant would provide a bonus of some sort to whichever spell you cast, or getting creative with the elements. Like casting Sear with Redgull creating plasma tiles instead of cinder tiles, or other interesting combinations like that. Alternatively, provide a way to easily swap between enchants, even at a momentum expenditure, so you have some way to move between elements as required.

Another "quick fix" would be to finally give the invocations within Evoker Charge Mind/Excel effects like had been stated previously to help bring them at least somewhat on par with other highly competitive abilities so they can see more usage rather than nearly never being used at all. Alternatively, modify some of these other invokes to have other utility as well so damage isn't their only use.

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  [v2.95d, Event Skill] Confusing Blitzkrieg
Posted by: matthewmwps - 02-13-2025, 09:48 AM - Forum: Bug Reports - Replies (5)

This is an event skill but I feel it has usage for EMs so i want to report it here.

Blitzkrieg only applies assault order to allies when the caster is confused, and doesn't add the charge order onto it.

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Exclamation Grim sprite for public use
Posted by: Mangofruit - 02-13-2025, 06:20 AM - Forum: Submissions - No Replies

Code: 
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You can hide the head by tugging torso down. Has chimera racial parts

   

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  [2.95]OH GOD I FORGOT TO EMPTY MY POCKETS FIRST
Posted by: Entropy - 02-13-2025, 05:52 AM - Forum: Bug Reports - Replies (3)

When you unequip an item mid-combat, such as through Cast-Off Flexing, it also unequips any items on your item belt.

This is uniquely annoying to my very specific build that uses cast-off flexing seriously and also uses an item belted weapon.

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  The elemental katanas we left behind.
Posted by: Balthie - 02-12-2025, 11:32 PM - Forum: Suggestions - Replies (4)

Tarnada. Fuuma. Hisen.
Let me preface by saying that it's natural for certain weapons to become the top of their class, to have certain advantages that set them apart as the most generally desirable. This is fine, inevitable, and part of any ongoing meta. However, I think I speak for most of the game when I say that many of us would still desire that the lesser-used, more middling weapons could find a steady niche to settle into and keep them in a healthy spot.
There's going to be a section on the issues here. If you know the issues with the elemental katanas and want to move ahead to the suggestion, skip to the bolded subheader.

There was a time when Raijin was the best weapon in the game. Yukijin had long been pretty great as one of the few katana options before that. Kouenjin fit a similar vibe to Yukijin in that regard, still plenty usable. Sanjin had a very strong time in the sun on certain more niche basic attackers. All (save one!) of these katanas have been at the very least good when compared to many other weapons, not even specifically just swords.
As things stand now, however, this is far less the case- right now, the only major reason to go for them is that they have a better flavour/IC fluff than most. Let's look at most of the other katanas in comparison.
Contrasting this set of swords to their peers, a few major categories stand out- they lack the statistical advantages of Tarnada (15 base power, 10 base crit) | Braver (16 base power, 90 accuracy, easy SWA gouge) | even Wo-Dao/Hisen (125% crit damage for both, 10% base crit for Wo-Dao), they lack the sheer damage efficiency of swords like Fuuma (wear down; more general than the elemental on-hits, as Kensei combos don't make full use of them; we'll loop back to this), and they lack the global effectiveness of other weapon potentials in the same class like Hisen (universally applicable unlike elemental katanas- save Raijin).

Next, let's look at the potentials, as they're a large part of where this weapon set falls short.
Universally, the main effect of the potentials are to modify hidden cut. Each changes it to magic damage of the katana's respective element. The magic damage swap can be decent in the right circumstances (irrelevant vs equal defenses, non-tanks, and more easily achieveable via power grad), but, almost universally, the swap to an element is actively a downgrade. They aren't spells, and don't get idol to boost damage. Sources like intensify cold (single target) are severely niche and limited, and sources like eresh don't work because that's already another potential. This all means that, by default, being an element with no other boost is a damage decrease- almost every character in the game has even a small % of elemental resist from APT SAN alone.
To go one step further though, each has a further effect. An explosion for Kouenjin, an ice pillar and tiles for Yukijin, poison tiles for Sanjin, and dark water for Akujin... however, what I haven't mentioned is that these effects only apply to killing blows against monsters. They're an additional effect that surrounds a defeated monster, only relevant for enemies close to said monster, which are completely non-factors when used ON a player. If there is a match where there is no Summoner (Bonders/Shifters may not even summon at all), Druid (could just be wild shape!), or MAYBE Dark Eye Tactician or... Shine Knight Priest(?), you're just not going to see these effects at all. Even if you are, you'll need to kill the summon with hidden cut, whilst it's next to the summoner/another player. With very few exceptions, these effects of the potential are never going to impact PvP.
The one exception here is Raijin- fitting enough for what was for a time the king. It's basically just a lightning crit effect that DOES work fully on players; albeit far less effective than it used to be. Bonus points for being the one damage type easily boosted too, via the several sources of soak. Raijin, even without it's old busted scaling, just kinda has more advantages than the others. Hisen nowadays is a better version of this, with crit damage that scales obscenely.

To touch on Kensei proper; nowadays, you're severely incentivised to Kensei combo. This is goddamn rad to be honest. However, that realistically means maybe one (Wazabane) basic attack a round if you're playing into said combos, further reducing the relevance of the katana on-hits.

So, to note all that into shorthand; they lack the stats of other katanas, lack the accessibility of damage for other katanas, and lack the global applicability of other katana effects in a practical sense, whilst modern Kensei design has left behind their main general use.
There is one advantage; 10% of a resistance to one element, a small amount that likely won't be what you consistently run into, depending on meta. It can help hit resist goals via materials though, undoubtedly. This is not a large enough matter to really be "their niche." It does, however, inform the direction I think would be good for the future.



The solution I think is most applicable;

Twofold, working in tandem. We open up the on-hits, and slightly adjust the potentials to best support both that effect AND the on-hit.

First, and most importantly in my opinion-
Holy sword should be the standard for on-hit mechanics in general going forward. It feels good to proc, it's more generic use/supports more use-cases, and makes more sense with modern SL2 than most old weapons. It is, frankly, just plain great game design on Dev's part to make holy sword on-hits do the three procs a turn, usable on skills angle.
The elemental katanas should do this too, on Kensei skills. Immediately, that leans into their strongest aspect; the theming becomes way more on-point by letting Kensei combos more effectively display the elemental theme of the character, in tandem with sacred art. This disentangles it from old "basic attack, basic attack, basic attack," Kensei setups of ancient times, and brings them in line with modern combo design.
Straight up, this first part is immediately enough to give a REAL reason to use them, even though that still likely wouldn't put them on level with Tarnada or the like. This gets them that niche which turns them from "left behind," to "good enough, has a fun niche," which IMO is the sweet spot for weapons.

Second, and most important for the WEAKER katanas of this group, but frankly healthy for making the potential worthwhile for all of them-
I very firmly believe that these katanas should have a 10% elemental resist pierce (pierce, not shred; cannot reduce below 0) of their element tied to the potential. Straight off the bat, the potentials are no longer a downside more often than an upside. They can still be checked and weakened via an active effort to RESIST an element, but aren't just made lesser by passive SAN/APT. I think this direction is more healthy than slapping each of the potentials with a flat "do 30 more damage" or the like, as it also gives room for the on-hits do to their work and make some value for these katanas. It leaves the major effects as being a nice PvE thing- that's not bad innately! -whilst keeping the potentials having some degree of usefulness in ALL (PvE/PvP) situations.
I'm relatively sure about the direction of tying this to the potential, mind. Given potentials need to be main hand, it hems in a little bit of edge cheese (no offhanding one for free damage on any other given source, no pairing with things like eresh, etc).
On a fun, less meaningful note, 10% pierce also mirrors the 10% resist. That resist can be kept or gotten rid of, it's honestly kinda less meaningful to the function of these weapons, but it does at least add a cute little element of duality to each of them. 


Now, the above effects help each of the set. Particularly the first. But there's one elephant in the room.
Out of all of these, Akuijin has never had a place. Not once. People have tried, people have even tried very similar builds for years, hoping things have changed. The scaling change on all these swords help, but never enough- simply put, dark resist is, was, and will always be plain common. A ton of the game does dark damage. People will always want to resist an element that's a very large chunk of the game, that's just logical. Unambiguously, the second change here helps Akuijin SLIGHTLY more than the others- but mostly just because it's always been behind, and this brings them all to be much closer to level with one another in that regard. When bringing everything up to a level playing field, it's always the worst off that'll gain the most, and that's only fair.

I'm overall pretty confident about these changes, and would really like to see them implemented. I think they're healthy both for variety and character thematics, they help provide a unique niche to a set of beloved but currently underpowered weapons, and it's an easy solution to bringing several pieces of old gear up to being in line with the modern design for the class they're for. At that, it still won't make them as relevant as the top of the class- and frankly, that's a good place for them to be.


tl;dr
kouenjin, yukijin, raijin, akuijin, and sanjin should apply their elemental damage on kensei offensives
their potentials should give 10% relevent elemental pierce so that they're not by default a damage loss

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  [2.95d] Woahhh my Head is spinning
Posted by: Rendar - 02-12-2025, 07:33 PM - Forum: Bug Reports - Replies (1)

The Dizzy subtalent in Fist Weapon Mastery says it applies to basic attacks with fists.

It, in fact, applies to all attacks made with a fist weapon.

Which does kind of mean you can rapid kick someone for like 30 fp drain.

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  SL2 Build Randomizer
Posted by: InsainArcaneBirdbrain - 02-11-2025, 09:55 PM - Forum: General Discussion - Replies (1)

There's apparently a demand for this, so I made a thing. Make a personal copy of the sheet to use it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing


While there *is* a stat generator in the sheet as well, I'd suggest using Miller's instead (in their public drive next to the calc), as it's far more customizable and less scuffed.

Link to their drive can be found here:
https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthr...p?tid=6498

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  Superior UI
Posted by: Collector - 02-11-2025, 04:54 PM - Forum: Suggestions - Replies (2)

It's been long enough, so I feel like I'm allowed to bring it up again.

New UI is, unfortunately, worse than the old one. It doesn't display battle weight, mental/physical stamina, or more importantly, allied buffs. Having to ask allies with Mask of Metal/Mysterious what their debuff/buff timers are is rather annoying, and I feel like this could be easily fixed by either adding back the old UI as a toggle or adding this information to the new UI. (Or allowing allies to look into allied buffs via the 'check party status' menu.)

Also I prefer the old stylized look. : (

[Image: EJBmzze.png]
Miller for scale.

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  Evade Ignore Sweep
Posted by: Poruku - 02-11-2025, 04:29 AM - Forum: Balance Fu - Replies (6)

In today's evade landscape, one must constantly grapple with hit in their build. Or, in some cases, simply abandon hit entirely in favor of an evade ignore build, or a full support build / minion-user. 

Evade ignoring abilities have a place as a way to make matchups against evade enemies more consistent, as well as, in some cases, guarantee that a secondary effect activates on something important. Evade ignore builds are sometimes balanced as well. But sometimes not.

However, a few skills remain that allow a bit too much evade ignoring power... I wanna talk about some specific examples. In many cases, I think Great Accuracy is a better way to balance evade ignoring abilities, unless the ability really makes sense with full ignore. In some cases, a high cooldown is enough. And in other cases, the ability or combo is difficult to land so it makes sense to have a payoff.



Firebird's Falcon Strike + Lift Off (feat. Lance De Lion and Soaring Spear)
This combo has a low cooldown and allows firebird to consistently wreck an evader in close quarters. Though I think it's not that broken, firebird's evade ignore gameplay could use a little nudge down as it's the most consistent class versus evade in my opinion. I think making falcon strike GA would be fair, as it's also a movement skill that is very useful. They both have a 2 round cd, so it's easy to spam it. On top of that, firebird has access to lance de lion to round things out, and soaring spear in certain situations.

Plisfa's Masochism
This single skill makes any matchup against a basic attacking hexer essentially impossible to win as an evade build unless you have a summon or some way to avoid taking on the curse. I feel kind of bad using it when in a 1v1 with a poor evasive duelist and I get to guarantee some 300 damage crits as soon as they touch me. I'm not sure what the nerf is here. I rarely see this used, perhaps because it feels just unfair or it's just unreliable. So yeah idk.

Grenade Launcher
Spamming this skill every round, on its own, can allow you to slowly kill any evade build. In fact it's like 50% of the reason why engineer is good. It's crazy! This skill could really use the Greater Accuracy tag because it has a 1 round cooldown. It's simply too good. This should also be done with the bomb item.


Suzaku's Lord's Flame
The spammable skill of Suzaku is pretty crazy strong at deleting evaders. I think it should either have a cooldown or become GA or just become a normal skill and you give youkai more consistent hit in general so summoners aren't constantly forced to use suzaku and sazae oni. Whirlpool isn't too broken since, well, it does have a cooldown. But it is still quite strong.

Shaitan's Painful Grip
I think I daydreamed this being nerfed at some point. But it's still crazy good right? Either way it deserves a little nerf in my opinion. Since it ignores all protection and all evasion, it's good against every kind of opponent, though, mostly really tanky and really evasive ones, being less overall effective if your opponent has poor defenses. I think that dynamic is interesting and it should keep its consistency, but perhaps receive a tiny little small nerf to make it less devastating. The fail chance is already quite annoying and I think it's a liiiiittle bit overrated in many cases but still, definitely one of the OGs of evade ignore and it's been very powerful for a long time, not to mention shaitan in general is a goated race.

Divine Shower
I think slapping Greater Accuracy on this one would be fair. It's a skill that can turn the tide of a fight, and it's on a class that is very powerful. I don't see why the Evade Ignore is warranted on it.

Dancing Tentacle
Aquamancer has a few good tools to deal with evade builds, with steam sear, water to wine, and most importantly the spammable dancing tentacle. This skill has been very good for a long time. It even immobilizes! Since it's such a solid skill with no cooldown that has a powerful effect as well, I think it deserves Greater Accuracy.

Solblader
The evade ignore of solsphere goes pretty hard. I have little experience with this class or against it, but I hear it's good. I'm sure someone has a better take than me on this.


Ice Point Guard Icicle Spear
I'm not sure if this is too strong... Thoughts?

Frigid Formation
This should have a lower cooldown....

Retaliate
GA retaliate anyone?....

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  Item Grind simple solution
Posted by: Raigen.Convict - 02-10-2025, 08:42 PM - Forum: Suggestions - Replies (2)

I have an idea. Ladies and Gentlemen, what if we rework bosses to have guaranteed item drops based on level and rarity? For example. Level 20 bosses guarantee a single 1-3 star drop. Level 40-60 Bosses guarantee a 4-6 star drop. Level 60 bosses guarantee a 7-9 star drop and level 80 bosses guarantee multiple drops of any rarity outside 10, maybe 2 per party member... But have a slim chance to drop a random 10 star weapon. Like 0.01%.

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