Heya everyone. Before making a big ol' thread on everyone's favorite worst class here, I just wanted to get a general consensus on things and take in any suggestions or ideas anyone may have on what to do with our poor Boxer boys. To start with, some general ideas I think most everyone has said before and agrees with.

SP Squish - As most older classes, our poor Boxer has a lot of skills that need a lot of points, but not enough to throw around. In total they have a whopping 68 points in their tree to spend. What do most of these happen to be? 32 total are offensive. It's not totally needed and you can make it work, but an SP squish on these offensive skills would be very nice to see.

FP Cost - Most of boxers skill cost a whopping 20-30 FP a cast, lord forbid you wanna use the same ability twice in a round. Usually about 25 FP per cast a round I'd say, you're usually using up 40-50 FP a round. If you got a geist to pop, thats probably 60-70 FP. If Boxer's FP regen options were better I wouldn't mind that much, but as it is? You use 50 FP every round, at 4 rounds? That's 200 already drained and gone, poor Boxer already running on fumes..

Sturm Woes - This is a game that lets you mix and match, create crazy and very cool class combinations. I've seen some amazing things from what people have been able to combine. But Boxer? Sadly, our class is rather.. selfish. If you use anything BUT a Boxer skill (and even some of them still take sturm), or a basic attack, you will be losing -2 sturm. Let's say your enemy dashed across the whole map. You could use Geist Drei, but due to SP reasons, most people don't run that option. How about Boxer's base class, Martial artist? What if I wanna Shikuchi and then basic movement? Oh.. that's a whole -4 sturm. Generally, unless you get lucky with geist (or do no damage and spam Regenschaeur?) you're generally going to get 1-2 sturm a round. And if you use literally any other class, EVEN their base class, you lose it all just like that, regardless of the momentum cost.  Charge? -2. Shikuchi? -2. 1m guard? -2. Playing Boxer can be absolutely brutal with how selfish it is at times, you can't even use your own base class if you want to play Boxer! Why?! No heaven kick, geldoren, meditate, crane hopping, shikuchi- You may use these one single time at the start of the fight, or after a finisher (if you can get up to the sturm for it..) but that's it. And I'm not even talking about your SUB class here. Boxer is so selfish, it only wants to play by itself and practically forces you to run passives for it.

To fix that, I'd say to allow basic movement and Martial Artist skills to not cost any sturm. Is allowing someone to Shikuchi + Heaven Kick or Meditate and not lose all their sturm stacks going to break the game? I don't think so. I'd also say for any skills under 3m to not take any sturm either. There's a few, even if rare, it would be incredibly nice. Backflip, guard, charge? DH's or Verglas' doing their combos and keeping the bit of sturm they have? Sturm only increases Boxer's own skill damage anyway.

Diagonal Movement - So.. how to counter a boxer? It's rather simple. You simply move one space diagonal of them. The terror, the raw fear! What is boxer's answer to this simple move? Losing -2 sturm to reposition yourself. Or.. Orkam, which is also -2 sturm. All of Boxer's offensives are only in melee range, or, in a single line. Geist movement? Nope, you're forced to move at least 3 tiles, 3-6, and only in a straight pattern. You can literally be directly next to a boxer, just in a diagonal space, and it is such a power move. It breaks them.

Solution? As above, basic movement not taking any sturm or MA's skills not doing so would solve this. Another idea I like also is like the modern classes. Bard gets some fancy movement, not forced to move in a single line. I'd like Geist to be the same way like that, able to move diagonally too. And not limiting geist to forcefully having to move 3-6 squares, why not 1-6?

Ghastly Geists - Armed with the right knowledge, what can a player do? Absolutely bypass geists entirely! For 3m you just spent 20 fp and moved 3-6 spaces, woohoo! Most players nowadays bypass geists completely. It's already a 50/50 guessing game, but that's the neat interaction of the skill. Did you just dump 3 momentum into the dumpster or are you gonna hit that jackpot and catch them off guard? It's one of my favorite skills in the game, I love the interaction of it. Anytime someone guesses right on me, I'm happy either way! Or- you could just use all the generous amount of skills in the game that ignore it completely. I'd seriously love for more geist interactions to be in the game, bar AoE's as you're not targetting the boxer really. But that spell or skill that shoots off in a single line, only able to hit one target? Yup, you guessed it, ignores geist completely. Why? Holy Arrow, Needler off the top of my head. Mage spells. I don't want Geist to be too overbearing or obnoxious and work on everything, but it really sucks to shoot 3 momentum down the drain and get nothing in return. No one is gonna win in a fight with 4 momentum versus someone that has 7(god forbid they have fleur which most everyone does).

Solution - more Geist interactions, barring AoE's, but I'd like to hear more thoughts about this. I was even thinking of having Geist not give you 3M in return for allowing it to work on practically everything but that might be too punishing. You soak up someone's attack if it pops, get free movement, and get 2 sturm total for +10% damage. Would that be too punishing? Let me know your thoughts.

Fighting Pace - An absolutely abysmal skill. When you end turn, with a minimum momentum of 3, you get FP back. 10 FP. For 3 momentum. Boxer has so much SP requirements that I have never seen someone use this whatsoever. Let alone ending their turn with straight up 3 momentum. I have a few ideas for this to actually get some usage.

Why not for every sturm lost, they get.. 5 FP back at least? A decent way to keep yourself in a fight even if you're punished and lose sturm. Could also just be general FP recovery even if a bit boring, or maybe small return on boxer skills used? But I like the first idea best.

Failing Felsmanege - Oh poor Felsmanege.. never used.. why? As a finisher you can create a bunch of rocky pillars around you! And.. have them all be jumped over right after! It seems like its trying to play off On The Ropes here but.. you just used your Sturm Finisher for +15% more damage. And if you have 8 sturm.. that's 40% damage you just lost. So.. why use it? And most people just jump past it anyway.

For me, I LOVE the idea of what it's going for here, it just needs to be fully implemented (if possible). A boxer needs its boxing ring. I'd love for the pillars to be impassable objects, not haunted over or blinked over. Gotta stay in the ring with the bull. Or maybe some interactivity perhaps? Playing off the 'ropes', maybe something like Ymir. Knockback someone into the pillar, they take 150% earth damage.

Thank you all for coming and taking your time to read this, I'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas! Generally I'd love Boxer to get a big sweep of changes and I might think of some ideas after this thread. Actual class combos would be pretty great! Grappling someone into a big suplex slam, maybe some grappling moves. Perhaps charged up moves. Use a skill enough, it gets powered up? Or combo'd with another for a special move? Or something like Monk with their slick moves. Sky Chariot gets a big bonus to someone already KD'd, does even more damage and immobilizes the. A cool combo.

The logical reason of bows not being one handleable doesn't actually work anymore since we have handshots. Not to mention great axes and swords can be twin danced. Rifles that require reloading can be twin danced. And I honestly can't think of any bows that are strong enough to break twin dancing, especially since the ones that have effects are strength scaling and are pretty bad.

Please?

Sound and Acid staffs would be cool to add in.

Silence completely shuts down multiple classes and, has numerous forms of application which deal regular damage, and has no natural immunity.

Immobilize and Clumsy are much less detrimental to the classes they affect, only affect a subset of damaging skills, is much harder to apply, has a commonly shorter duration, come on skills with cooldowns, and has natural immunity.

I don't understand why silence hasn't been given the same treatment. Skills that inflict it should do so with a reduced duration, likely until next turn, the skills that apply it should have a cooldown, and there should be an immunity period after ending.

We all know that Corrupted and Sanc do not get along however I would like to pose this get changed for once. Since SL2 is a game based on freedom of expressing a creative though in a Role-Play setting why is there a race group which is actively hurt by one of the stats which is tied to an entire Element? That would be like saying Vampires active suck if you get faith and it lowers their racials for an example. (Which is not true but what if it was?). 

I pose to allow Corrupted Races to build this fable Sanc stat just so they can build Sound Attack with the exception being Theno which entire gimmick is great. However they should not be the only corrupted limited to SOUND ATTACK. This also goes back to the point where we do need possibly new star-signs for Acid & Sound. I would not mind if this was a trait for all Corrupted races that allowed them to build Sanc but got no benefit from it outside SOUND ATTACK...

TL/DR - Corrupted shouldn't be locked out of Bard just because of a single stat that reduces the thing that you mostly want. Racials.

Give us the ability to freely jump over obstacles while walking in the overworld, through the use of a command or macro, and then double-clicking a valid terrain, at the cost of all your physical stamina.

It'd be cool to be like flippin' ninjas and stand on rooftops on a whim.

Applicable BYOND Key - Skullcatrons (Main-key), Saltyhyatt (Key this character is on)

Character Name - Gunther

Request Type -  Character Ability, Increased focus capacity than usual for roleplay-aspect. 


Request Details -  Effectively, thorough lack of actual knowledge about their Real, and misunderstanding that only way to properly healing better than usual, was to find methods to expand their focus capacity to be able to continue repairing wounds. While it may have some minor benefit (Relatively about 20% better than usual, it's not complete solution), the Dragon will not know that the reasons why Healing Magic is so weak is because Mercala have conditional co-sign on the Element, and without any knowledge of her existence whatsoever, or the fact that she is the sole owner of healing field, he believed that best way to push healing magic to new field, is to expand one's focus capacity to tolerate the drain of healing. 

It's simple process, really.


Reason why you are making this request (if applicable) - He's active user of the Blessing, and because he isn't really a doctor, he tries to use healing magick whether there was urgent situation, or so. But due to him consistently making frequent uses, he tend to keel over from lack of focus just because of how extensive it is. In addition, it would justify Gunther just naturally have higher focus capacity than most. 


Roleplay & Lore supporting your request -


- (How much non-elemental magic is there?) I'd say there's more than is represented in game, but generally it's weaker than elemental magic because there is no elemental god power cosigning it. (This states that elemental magic is empowered by gods cosigning their power to it).

- (Are curates of other religions possible?) Healing magic from gods other than Mercala is rare, which is why she's such a big deal. Enchantment spells you could make some argument for but probably not healing spells.

(Are all Mercana spells tied to Mercala?) Yes, pretty much. Healing and light magic are what she does. Like I said, though, you could make some sort of argument for 'bending the rules' for spells that aren't healing related.

- (How experienced do you have to be to do great healing miracles?) Experience isn't so much the issue as it is focus issues. Healing with Mercana consumes a lot of focus, and it gets much more focus hungry the larger the project.


- (Can a person absorb too much focus and hurt themselves?) Your body has a maximum capacity. Once it's at that capacity, it can't absorb anymore.

(From Korvara Discord) How does healing magic work on Korvara if there is no Mercala?
Healing magic on Korvara functions similar to healing magic on Sigrogana. The healing magic is drawn upon from the caster as well as magic energy native to the island. However, the magic is less potent - it is capable of treating wounds, but it cannot replace limbs nor revive the deceased, and it significantly drains the caster.



Gunther's ultimately delved into the library, browsing the grimoires of spells, magick, and attempting to expand his capacity of Focus by meditation. After several researches, he've decided to pry into his own beings: The draconic energy. By using unknowingly what is the blessing of Hyatt, he used his wings to simulate focus as he meditate. Trying to deplete it with various of spells, and then fill it back with focus. Although this kind of process tend to tire him out, almost starving, and ends up needing to take a break from it before repeating the entire process.

He continued using the dragon's wings he was born with to simulate the focus in the air, and rejuvenating him. This kind of process would've taken days, months, even years just to be able to expand the capacity of focus just to be able to use healing spells. Alas, it would not be terribly sufficient because again, as everything goes, he is not aware that Mercala is the reasons why healing magick is tremendously weak in Korvara. He's trying to put bandage on a severed limb, and while it help, it's very minor effect.

On plus-side, higher focus capacity than usual if succeeded.

It'd be great if monsters didn't benefit from the increased elemental resistance granted by Sanctity.

That way you wouldn't need an Indignant Idol to ever see Weak! procs on things that are 25% weak to something, but because of their 6+ SAN score you never see it without debug on and cannot use it for bonus momentum.

It would also help to actually see what damage some things are weak to.

I'm an addict, I love these things too much, I probably have void cancer.

now onto the premise its way too easy to destroy these things for the cost associated with setting them up.

3m per gate

vs

1 spicy issep spell or aoe tile breaker eating all of them.


My proposed change would to make void gates attackable like gravestones, white prison walls, planets, and other field objects, but immune to "tile breakers" basically making them non dense objects like flowers.

So, recently, this thread was posted: https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthr...2#pid50152

And subsequently locked, for a reason I'm not quite grasping. I think many people posted a lot of very important points and discussed things in a mostly civil manner, even though there were disagreements.

That being said, I'm not trying to revive a locked thread, what I want to talk about is the more general matter at hand being transparency and how bans are being investigated and dealt out. However, if people want to shed light on things, go ahead. If this thread gets locked too, that's fine. If I'm out of line, let me know.


My perspective on recent events

Much like Mother's ban, this ban came out of left field for the banees. One second they're playing the game, and the next second they just got banned, sometimes mid-rp. I spoke with Croakie and they didn't seem to know or understand why they were banned. She even made a post asking why, and it got no replies. Even more puzzling is Lumi who barely speaks in ooc, etc. No replies to any of the threads.

When it happened, of course, everyone jumps into voice chat and tries to understand what the hell is going on. Everyone is speculating about what exactly happened. 4 players including a major leader just got removed for a week, messing over plans for many and delivering a sizeable emotional blow, and for what? We don't know. Am I going to be next? Am I gatekeeping? The ban message doesn't give us any information and the people who got banned did not get any heads up. So of course, everyone in the community is now free to make up their own mind about what exactly happened. People speculate, and talk to each other in private, sharing even more speculation and rumors.

And this goes on until a thread is posted.

The thread barely elaborated on the issue out of a desire to protect the people involved, something I can understand, but it also made it fairly ineffective at clearing the air and clearing confusion. In addition, we have seen multiple fair points and replies being made with no response from the admin team about them. What are we supposed to believe?

Then, the thread is locked, and we're supposed to move on?

I trust the GM team, but I think this is a problematic way to handle things, and I'd like to make my points concise:

1: Little to no communication with the accused
Based on the fact every banned player was confused and made a ban appeal, it's safe to assume the GM team did not reach out to them to get their side of the story. And based on the fact Lumi and Aegis got banned, we can assume they didn't get the full story due to this. This is unfair to the accused because it means the evidence gathered will be entirely in the favor of the accuser. Not only that, but it also means they will get no warnings and thus have no opportunity to rectify their behavior. Even worse, they'll get suddenly banned mid-rp, having the rug pulled out from under their feet. A very stressful and confusing moment.

2: Whoever talks to the GMs first has the advantage
Related to point 1, a big issue here is that the GMs are clearly weaponizable. I'm not saying that the accuser had bad intentions, but what I'm saying is that whenever there is an OOC conflict, whoever messages the GMs gets an advantage as they can feed any evidence they see fit to the team and nobody on the opposing side will know. This, in my opinion, is not a very healthy part of a community, as it means the GMs aren't being used to solve issues, they're being used to ban. So when you reach out to a GM, you're going with the nuclear option, and you better strike first as it gives you the high ground. This brings me to the last point.

3: Bans based on OOC drama are counter-productive
What was even accomplished with these bans? Massive confusion, frustration, stress, disruption of events in game, increase of hostility between players, and the player base being left to speculate. A one week ban without a proper explanation and reached understanding beforehand is essentially pointless unless your goal is to completely kick out some people from the game and never have to deal with them again. Because these people will just come back after one week and guess what, everything is worse now because people are scared, they feel antagonized, they still feel confused, they wonder if they should even continue playing.

I believe people should not be banned so quickly for this sort of thing as all it does is send a bomb in a warzone. It sets a grim precedent and it simply does not allow people to learn from their mistakes. Even worse, it can make people fear the GMs.

There's a big difference between a ban given because a game rule was clearly broken, and a ban given for unclear OOC drama reasons. The latter needs to be addressed much more carefully. It's something to solve, not to punish. DM people and give them warnings, tell them what's going wrong, hear their side, make them understand, tell them what needs to change. If they keep doing nefarious things with that knowledge, then give them a sizeable ban. But this? This just ain't it.



I apologize if this post is making unpleasant things resurface, but I just had to speak up about this personally. Nobody asked me to do this, I barely ever speak with any of the players involved. But as a bystander, it just felt like it had to be said.