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Conflict and You |
Posted by: Trexmaster - 07-12-2025, 10:30 AM - Forum: General Discussion
- Replies (31)
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With the release of Yokoshura the current state of Korvara/SL2's Conflict Rules has become far more apparent to most given the heavy emphasis the lore Yokoshura brings has on sparking conflict in some shape or form.
While we're still 5 days or so away from the grace period ending, recent events have brought the conversation to light on how the system can be improved to better facilitate conflict or curtail it for those who'd rather not without detracting from the experience of others.
For context, here are the Conflict Rules, sourced from the SL2 Wiki that Dev was originally working on. The Korvara Conflict Rules are pretty short and can be summarized to DL1 always being enforced and the option to apply for Forced Danger Level, which I'll get into later.
Quote:What is 'conflict'?
This term will be used frequently. Conflict is defined as any serious scenario that results in violence, or other similar serious consequences, against one or more player character(s).
Clean and straightforward.
Quote:Rule of Roleplay
- Prior to conflict, roleplay between both parties must occur. This RP must be done in an interactive way; you cannot simple RP 'at' someone when you're looking for a fight.
- PVP is not mandatory for conflict RP. If both players agree to RP the scenario instead of PVP, that is perfectly acceptable, but follows all of the same rules.
- Your conflict and the level of extremity (see Rule of Consent section) must have some IC reason supporting it. Certain things may not be used as the sole justification, for example:
- My character is just evil.
- My character is simply insane.
- My character hates (race) and/or (gender) characters.
This is reasonable, though fairly subjective. Meaning it is difficult to argue for or against inciting conflict as everyone's idea of a character being justified or not will likely differ.
What defines 'an interactive way'? While I can infer what this means not everyone will easily understand that. From my understanding it boils down to not just swinging at people, or simply put, no direct interactions with another player's character in the context of conflict until they have roleplay'd back at you.
For those who do not seek conflict, without a clear indication that conflict is being sought by the person interacting with them, then the winning move is to simply not interact. Which isn't ideal for a roleplaying game.
Having more clear criteria for what scenarios support certain Danger Levels beyond the 1st may make it easier to judge organic conflict. If that will even be allowed in the rules moving forward.
For example:
Danger Level 1: Existing on Korvara.
Danger Level 2: Lingering in areas beyond the Outskirt maps of nations, remaining in a scene with clearly hostile individuals in such areas.
Danger Level 3: Lingering in areas further than the Highway maps from another nation, such as the Deep Wastes and Tundra. Actively inciting others in DL2 areas.
Danger Level 4: Would likely never be warranted outside explicit consent.
To curtail conflict being brought on those who do not want it, I'd suggest having a more clearly enforced Danger Level limit that players can opt into, so those who'd potentially wish to bring conflict to them know their preferences. It goes without saying that one should not seek to incite higher DL conflict than they'd wish brought upon themselves.
Quote:Rule of Consent
- Both parties must give consent to the 'danger level' of a conflict encounter.
- Danger Levels:
- Level 1: Simple non-life threatening injuries.
- Level 2: Robbery. (See Robbery section)
- Level 3: Maiming (IE, limb loss), destroying a vampire or lich's body. (IE, non-permanent character death.)
- Level 4: Permanent character death.
- In the event that no danger level is clearly established, both parties assume that it is level 1.
- For Level 1/2, consent may be given through IC roleplay that explicitly implies that the other party is about to be, for example, punched or robbed.
- For Level 3/4, explicit consent but must be given beforehand in the LOOC channel by both parties. Simply implying it is not allowed in these cases, as they have permanent consequences.
- Once consent is given, it cannot be revoked without the approval of the other party, or the intervention of a GM. Do not give consent if you are unwilling to follow the consequences!
- Consent cannot be forced in conflict between two parties. Furthermore, attempts to force or coerce someone into giving consent for something they do not want to do is not allowed. Do not harass them OOC - simply accept it and continue roleplaying, or move on.
- NOTE: If one party is, for example, egging on or insulting another party, and the insulted party makes it clear that they'd better stop or they'll retaliate. In instances like these, continuing to egg on or insult them would be the same as giving consent for the conflict (at level 1). Do not try to use this rule as a shield.
- Just because consent is given for a particular danger level does not mean that the victor has to follow through with it. For example, although consent is given for a robbery, the victor of the conflict may later choose not to actually rob the loser.
- Consent only applies for the specific encounter. (IE, just because someone consents to being robbed once does not mean they are giving consent for you to rob them in the future.)
Ah, the good ol' Consent Rules. As they stand, they effectively provide players immortality. Players can yap and do the wildest shit and face no consequence they do not wish to have wrought upon them if they simply do not consent.This is not inherently a bad thing. It becomes dubious when you introduce factors that encourage conflict in an environment that has enabled players to sidestep it at their leisure. You can put up all the warning signs you want but without strict moderation players simply won't know how to properly handle conflict, as they never had any reason to learn.The rules here do indeed state that they are not meant to be used as a shield, though often times in these scenarios it is often simply not worth pursuing the individual in question.
It creates headache in a universe where there are no stakes, no risk without the explicit consent of the affected parties. It takes an inordinate amount of passion and effort to be willing to push the bill when it comes to telling someone 'no, you need to face the consequences of your actions' in a world tailored around those rarely if ever existing without being expressly asked for.No one wants to be the villain OOCly. Sometimes people do stupid stuff and wind up in situations way over their head, and don't realize it until it's too late.
The rules as they presently stand disproportionately favor those who do not want conflict, making it an arduous task for those who are willing to be the aggressor in conflict to make roleplay out of it. The best way I can think of to retain the same safeguards whilst avoiding stressful situations OOCly would be to more clearly define how to handle situations wherein one wishes to invoke their right to not consent.
Example:
When initiating conflict, or in a scene that is perceived as approaching conflict, any involved party may state their maximum comfortable Danger Level for the scene. In instances where this is uncertain or has not been declared, either party may request the scene be paused until all involved parties have declared their accepted Danger Level. Once all parties have agreed on the Danger Level of the scene, it may continue, otherwise if no agreement can be reached a moderator determination will be made as to how the scene is resolved.
Not ideal to need to include moderators in every scene but if people cannot agree to how to resolve a scene, it's necessary. More specific determinations can be made in advance for how to handle certain areas like say Yokoshura. If say, an outsider went there and incited conflict and did not wish to face it, they'd be given a single pass and told to leave. Instigating again would result in Forced Danger Level.Ultimately this is a difficult problem to solve, as it touches upon one of the most fundamental things to Sigrogana Legend 2.
The ability for you and you alone to determine how your character's story pans out, bar the planets aligning and someone managing the Hail Mary that is a Forced Danger Level application with their current track record. Seriously though, the Consent Rule is something that needs to be better defined for the sake of both those who wish to avoid conflict and those who may find themselves instigating it, as favoring one side too much is only going to cause headaches.We're all here to have fun and write interesting (to us) stories. Consequences having meaning is integral to maintaining the integrity of the universe we have all collaboratively created. If a character does not wish to face consequences, they should take care to ensure their actions don't warrant them, and if they do? Be willing to compromise. A middle ground is what the Consent Rule needs.
Quote:Rule of Avoidance
- To avoid never-ending cycles of revenge conflict, both parties must avoid interacting for at least 12 real-time hours following the resolution of the conflict.
- Interacting means interacting; both parties have a responsibility to make sure their characters are not in the same place where conflict would begin again. For example, do not go taunt your victim/aggressor after the conflict.
- Naturally, it is forbidden to use different character(s) the player(s) own to try and get around this.
- This rule may be waived in the event that both parties amicably agree to do so. (IE, you wish to continue the RP).
- Always keep in mind that the spirit of this rule is to prevent nonsensical, repeated headbutting, and to avoid OOC drama which may arise otherwise.
This can be a tricky one to enforce but the basis of it is understandable. In a universe where you're physically incapable of simply murdering one another to solve a problem once and for all, naturally a dispute will last forever if both sides are immortal if you don't have something to stop them from going at it indefinitely.
Having to avoid one another on an OOC level though is kind of weird. Though as the rule can simply be waived on request, it's a non issue. It only exists to point at if someone is actively harassing a character repeatedly, which shouldn't be happening.It's just one of those rules that's far more likely to be wielded in bad faith than it is to actually help those who're being harassed. If someone's clearly harassing someone OOCly following conflict, that's harassment, no need for a rule to be carved out in the Conflict Rules to resolve that one. Whereas on the other hand, if I just got in a spat with someone, now suddenly if I'm idling somewhere entirely different on another character, I can get sniped over them being in the same spot on an entirely different character if they're feeling petty enough.
Now, how to maintain the spirit of this rule whilst removing its abuse cases? Trim down this rule to just
1. Following the conclusion of conflict, the involved parties may not enter or instigate conflict with one another for 12 real life hours. This rule may be waived if both parties agree to doing so.They can still talk to each other (notably, on other characters), they just can't get into conflict unless they both agree to it.
Way easier to moderate that, unless one side really wants to argue existing is instigating conflict. In some cases, that can be true of course if they aren't supposed to be there. Generally though, a moderator can make a very quick decision as to what is or isn't instigating conflict.
Quote:Scene Locking
First and foremost: Roleplay is a collaborative activity, not a competitive one. All parties involved in a scene, be it in conflict or not, should strive to make the scene fun and interactive for as many people as possible. Please keep that in mind when reading these rules.
- Once conflict has begun, except in one of the listed circumstances, the scene is considered 'locked'. This means that the participants in the conflict at that time are the only ones who can participate - meaning that if someone happens across the scene, they may observe OOCly, but cannot interfere or interact with it, and for the purposes of the scene, they are not there ICly.
- Once the conflict concludes, only participants may obstruct either party from leaving the scene, and only if it makes sense with how the scene played out. Non-participants cannot pursue leaving parties or interact with them regarding the scene for 10 real-time minutes (to give a little padding for antagonistic characters from being immediately pulled into another conflict).
- KEEP IN MIND: If you stumble across such a scene, you are observing OOCly. The way it plays out and any information divulged is NOT IC knowledge to you - using it as such is considered metagaming. This includes if your character was 'secretly watching' - if you did not participate (by roleplaying) in the scene from the start, you are not there ICly.
Yeah, I agree. The goal of creating a scene should be to have it fun for as many of those involved as possible. This rule is unfortunately one that is assumed to be in play, rather than one that is actively invoked.
With how infrequent conflict is, it's an easy one to to forget for those who aren't accustomed to it. Having some kind of mechanical representation for players to make use of to denote an active scene lock in the area would be a helpful reminder that they exist. So that we don't need to call an EM or GM to drop the Scene Lock icon onto the ground.
A game I play has a simple RP Flag verb that drops an object on the ground akin to a Placeable Sign that players can write text to display when it's clicked. Essentially what a sign is but far simpler and quicker to make use of. No questions as to whether it's a sign ICly, it's just a little arrow pointing downward. You click it, it prints the text the player submitted. This can be helpful for providing context to a scene in progress or simply informing that a scene is locked to those arriving.
Without a scene lock being made abundantly clear, this can create rippling OOC confusion that's extremely difficult to resolve without heavy moderator involvement in the aftermath to retcon things that shouldn't have happened or shouldn't have been known. If players don't know they have these protections nor how to invoke them, they won't be used.
Now for Korvara's Conflict Rules in particular:
Quote:Rule of Consent Adjustments
- Korvara conflict is always assumed to have a consented Danger Level 1 (simple non-life threatening injuries).
- This means that, provided supporting RP is done, you can't refuse to participate in a conflict.
- This does not mean that you can attack anyone at any time; the Rule of Roleplay still applies.
- A certain Danger Level can be forced in certain circumstances.
- See the section below for details.
Always DL 1, yet wait. It mentions the Rule of Roleplay. An important aspect to be certain in that your character is respected when it comes to engaging in conflict. People can't swing on you for no reason. Thus a hurdle exists to start any form of conflict, even if innocuous. As it stands, mechanical PvP is the default solution if a compromise can't be reached as to how to resolve it. Which is unfortunate considering how abysmal PvP is.
I don't wish to go on too long of a tangent on PvP, though it's important to mention in regards to conflict as it is presently the default means of resolution. The game actively encourages and rewards hot swapping your build. Your items, your talents, your traits, the only thing you get a warning about the other person swapping is their stats. God forbid you have a race that has counterplay to it (Kaels and Silver Bullets, someone deciding they were going to kill you specifically and got +25% vs Your Race in black spirits). There's way too many ways to counter build in this game, and if you aren't actively trying to do that yourself or have multiple different setups on a character? You are left open to being gamed by the sweatiest metagamers.
SL2 is simply not designed to be a competitive game, and it shows. Yet now we're faced with reasons to do so once more, and I'll get into the problems with that in a bit. For now we look at the section below for details on....
Forced Danger Level
Quote:As per the Conflict Rules, there is a Danger Level associated with conflict that determines how far the consequences can go. However, on Korvara, it is possible to 'force' a Danger Level in certain circumstances, by following the rules and guidelines listed below.
- Positions of influence, such as leadership roles, advisors, ambassadors, etc. are subject to the guidelines below.
- Characters in general can also be subject to them, especially if they engage in conflict-oriented RP.
- Some examples would be characters who are bandits or other serious criminals, hostile military actions, characters who have killed or harmed others with this rule, and so on.
Simplified Explanation
Make a txt, google doc, or some other organized document, with the following:
- What your character's exact goal is.
- The IC reasoning that your character wishes to try this.
- As many additional details as possible that you feel would bolster your chances of being approved.
- Screenshots or chat logs of in-game RP of your character working towards this goal.
Send the document to a GM for private discussion, and wait for them to get back to you.
Detailed Explanation
For this section, there will be a common example scenario provided; "My character wants to kill the Premier and take his/her position."
- What is your character's exact goal?
- AKA 'What do I hope to accomplish?'; in our example, it's quite clear. I wish to kill the Premier so that I can become Premier myself.
- The IC reasoning that your character wishes to try this.
- AKA 'Why am I doing this?'; in our example, perhaps I am simply am ambitious character who craves power. Or, perhaps, the Premier harmed or killed a dear person to me, and I want revenge on them.
- As many additional details as possible that you feel would bolster your chances of being approved.
- This is an important section that can contain many questions and answers.
- What is my plan to carry this out?
- You will need to establish the scenario in which you will accomplish this. In all likelihood, you are not going to get carteblanche to attack someone whenever it suits you.
- In our example, my plan is to lure the Premier into a private meeting, where I will attack them with a poisoned knife.
- When am I going to enact my plan?
- A general idea is fine, as scheduling conflicts may occur for whatever reason.
- In our example, I will say that I am going to enact this plot the next time I have a private meeting with the Premier.
- How am I going to enact my plan?
- You are not guaranteed to succeed in your goal. When your target inevitably uses their agency to resist, how will you settle matters?
- Are you planning to settle it with PvP, or via RP (perhaps with dice rolls or coin flips)?
- If you suspect you will want or need a GM to observe the conflict to ensure fairness, please state that as well.
- In the event that you and your target cannot agree on a method, the GM will have you both state your case, and decide from there. They can also act as a mediator/judge for RP.
- Who is going to help me? Who is going to obstruct me?
- While you are welcome to try something ambitious on your own, you should consider your allies, as well as your enemies; some will aid you, some will try and stop you.
- In our example, perhaps I have recruited the head of the guards on my side, who will prevent them from slaughtering me after I attack. That's an ally.
- Also in our example, perhaps the Premier has a bodyguard outside of the guards. That's an enemy who will interfere with my plan. Perhaps I will have him drugged or distracted so they cannot.
- If I'm successful, what is the logical progression?
- Actions have consequences. You should think ahead of time, based on the questions above, what will happen afterwards.
- In our example, I have killed the Premier. I have the guards on my side, who will serve as muscle to legitimize my claim to be the new Premier.
- If I'm doing it for revenge, however, maybe I'll just flee town quickly. If anyone stops me, for some reason, they might notice the blood on my hands, though...
- If I'm unsuccessful, what is the logical progression?
- Failure is a possibility, so you should consider what would happen if it occurs. Acknowledging the risks is important.
- Perhaps someone I wasn't expecting intervened, or the Premier turned the tables on me. There is a high likelihood I will be imprisoned, or even executed.
- Am I going to give the other character an 'out'?
- An 'out' would be a lesser consequence of this plot, while still achieving the goal. While not strictly necessary, it can help progress a plot while minimalizing 'feel bad' moments between players.
- In our example, I am trying to kill the Premier. If I'm ambitious, then all I really want is their power. My request can say that, once I have the Premier at my mercy, I plan to offer them an 'out' by having them willingly surrender power to me, and then exiling them.
- This way, the Premier has a choice; die heroically denouncing my villainy, or save themself and continue their story.
- Is the target's player aware this is coming?
- Your target does not need to be aware of your intentions. They will, however, be told that someone non-specific may be after their life, if your request is approved.
- The more cooperative both parties are willing to be towards each other, the more likely the request will be approved. It will also ensure that both parties will have time to carry it out in-game.
- Screenshots or chat logs of in-game RP of your character working towards this goal.
- AKA 'What have I done in service of my goal?';
- I might include the RP that I did with the head of the guards to earn their loyalty.
- I might also include RP of my character speaking with an alchemist familiar with poisons, to help me develop the poisoned knife I planned to use.
- Furthermore, I can include any other examples of my character's ambitious nature.
Once you have received approval from a GM...
- The GM will notify you of your approval, as well as the target of the conflict that they are being targeted (OOCly).
- They will not tell the target anything about who is plotting against them.
- Otherwise, this is important for fairness reasons.
- The GM will give you a time frame in which you have approval to carry out your plot.
- Once the time frame has passed, your approval is automatically revoked and you must apply for it again.
- Otherwise, people would sit on approval for long periods at a time, even if the situation changed in the meantime.
- A GM may give you and your target a 'passphrase'.
- This is a secret passphrase that can be used to verify between the two of you that what is happening was a request handled by a GM.
- You will be expected to follow the information and answers given in your request.
- Naturally, your request is only allowed to be carried out by your character. You cannot make a request for another player's character, nor can another player's character carry out your plot, unless explicit permission is given by the GM.
- If you falsified information regarding your intentions, etc., you may be punished and in certain cases, the RP may be reversed.
- Please, just be mature and fair with others, and only act with IC in mind.
If a GM denies your request, or asks you to amend it...
- They will inform you of what they found lacking in your request, or the grounds for its refusal.
- You may be lacking in supporting RP, for example. In this case, provide more supporting RP you left out, or do it IC.
- Once you have corrected the issue the GM has pointed out, you may submit the request to them again.
Wow, what a doozy. I bet many of you didn't even realize you could do this. I've only been privy to one specific Forced Danger Level request ever made. It failed, as the GMs did not believe there was ample cause. It made me wonder if even that couldn't pass, what it would take to have it succeed if the individual in question wasn't already on the road to being banned.
For what it takes to have this app pass, you might as well just work with the person in question directly to work out an amiable resolution. I cannot imagine anyone wants to leave the resolution to such an arduous task to pure chance or to the easily manipulated mechanics of the game, let alone when it is almost certainly pertaining to the death of a character.
That leaves the question then, of how does one resolve conflict when all we're effectively left with is flipping a coin to decide which side wins if players cannot agree?
Without massive mechanical changes such as creating an entirely new load out for characters that is only used for PvP (and cannot easily be changed), the best we can do is create a simple tabletop-esque system in line with the hinted at dice system yet to be introduced. Dice rolls offering relevant modifiers are about the best compromise I can think of that'd not require an inordinate amount of effort to implement. Even then, it isn't ideal.
I believe that until a more robust system and or rule set can be made, Forced Danger Level should never exceed 2. Capture being the only exception with the caveat that players cannot be held for over an OOC day without good cause.
Not that anyone was really even using Forced Danger Level (successfully). I just don't think the system as it stands can support it, and time has proven that to be true. Unless someone wants to correct me we've not seen a single instance of one of these apps successfully being carried out. It simply doesn't work and no one wants to use it to kill or maim people. They just ask the person in question nicely about doing those things to their characters, as it'd be perceived as OOCly hostile to do so otherwise, among other complications.
In Conclusion
The rules are only one half of the dilemma we face in this community when it comes to conflict and successfully facilitating it to the enjoyment of all parties involved.
The other is in our collective ability to maturely handle it. I believe a primer on how to properly conduct conflict would come in handy. The most succinct one I can provide would be to simply state your desired outcomes at the onset of conflict, and find a happy medium if so desired. Being able to OOCly compromise can result in a far more enjoyable experience for both parties rather than it solely being about 'winning' the conflict. There's no need to fight for creative license when we're all here to try and create a story that's fun for everyone involved.
If larger scale conflict is ever sought it'd require clear rules as to how it'd be conducted, if not an entirely new system designed to facilitate it, with clearly defined goals from the parties involved.
Korvara as it presently stands is a universe that remains nigh unchanging. Outside the realm of events the world cannot change. Few desire it to change, change is actively fought against when it comes to developing the land or expanding territory. It makes for a stagnant world. It comes as no surprise that many would be eager to jump ship with how much trouble everywhere other than Geladyne has had in drumming up activity.
Conflict is the catalyst of change, the force that individuals battle against to achieve their goals, no matter how great or insignificant they may be. Bereft of it, the world remains unchanged, for better or worse. When one can strive for little as the barriers are insurmountable (no one wants war, some maps cannot be changed, some areas are off limits to expand into, many innovations are outright banned from being created, etc), they are forced to look toward the world of events to receive anything resembling conflict or growth.
TL;DR
PvP is horrible for resolving conflict whilst being the default method of doing so, and we need the conflict rules to be better defined to better facilitate conflict in a way that's enjoyable to all parties.
I'm sure I didn't touch on every problem spot when it comes to conflict so I welcome input as to how conflict can be improved.
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The Vegan Curse |
Posted by: Poruku - 07-12-2025, 05:31 AM - Forum: Approved Characters
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Applicable BYOND Key (And Discord) - Polkjm
Character Name - Joe
Request Type - Power
Request Details - This power is two-fold.
1: The chicken farmer can detect how much chicken a person has consumed in their life simply by observing them intently. This can be circumvented by a skilled illusion mage or someone with mental defenses.
2: Against a defeated or immobilized foe, the farmer's chicken companion can inflict a curse that makes the victim allergic to chicken. This curse can be dispelled by a competent master of the hexer arts, or whatever way you want. But I'm sure you won't find one of those in Korvara!
Reason why you are making this request (if applicable) - This is a funny and harmless way to add an element of conflict to the character and a minor consequence to add a little stakes. I think it's a fitting way to do conflict for a "funny" antagonist.
Roleplay & Lore supporting your request - Chicken Farmer's schtick is that he's a druid who specifically befriended chicken spirits. The chickens informed him that they don't want to be farmed for food anymore, and they want to get revenge. Thus, the farmer and his companion roam the lands to punish chicken-eaters. His hope is that it will harm the chicken industry. The source of his special power is the anger of the chicken spirits he has befriended.
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[3.00j] Targeting |
Posted by: Rendar - 07-12-2025, 02:42 AM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (1)
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If you Click on the screen while Targeting a tile (In this case, Haunting)...
You will auto-confirm the action, and do it.
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More merciful Show Mercy |
Posted by: Snake - 07-10-2025, 02:31 PM - Forum: Suggestions
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The skill works as intended: when you use Show Mercy, it applies a status effect, and on their next turn, the target chooses whether to flee or stay and fight to the end.
However, I'd like to request a small change to make the roleplay intent behind the skill and trait more consistent.
Make the Show Mercy status's acceptance condition a guaranteed 100% chance if the target is at or below 10 HP. In return, while they are under said Show Mercy status applied by you, your attacks (and damage) can't reduce their HP below 1.
Similar to how Tekagen or Kiddy Gloves behave, but only toward the Show Mercy target.
This would allow the trait to reliably activate based on player intent rather than RNG, and would prevent situations where a player accidentally kills someone they meant to spare with that random Riposte, item effect, status effect or field effect that is completely out of their control.
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Shinobi class feedback |
Posted by: Snake - 07-10-2025, 01:53 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (19)
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Not really much to discuss here. For a damage class, Shinobi is quite lacking in that aspect. For its utility, the duration of things is quite chained down. And for its Mage-Melee hybrid deal, the magic part leaves some room for improvement.
Kenpo skills don't have enough scaling for its damage to keep things interesting with Combination Fighter of Kenpo Master. And Shinobi lacks a basic hitting skill to let it extend Combination Fighter within its own class. (This is only relevant, because Combination Strike exists. There is no synergy between Kenpo Master and Combination Strike.)
Ninjutsu spells have very shortened range and a weird scaling of Elemental ATK that influences said range, which limits you to your stat distribution. And the cooldowns are quite boring to tack on.
Genpo skills don't last long enough to make an impact, being only 2 rounds at worst for its debuffs. And the numbers being very tame too. (10% is the most powerful debuff I've observed, for something that either lasts 1 effective round, or 'until your next round'.)
Furinkazan has numbers of SWA reduced to as little as 50%, god damn. The coolest thing about the class, deals absolutely no damage and once again, its effects last as long as an "until next round" or "2 rounds".
The obvious aside,
I don't want to overwork or complicate my observations about what hopefully a few of everyone have noticed, so I'll try to be brief about what may need to be changed. At least scaling-wise or a small change in its effects, so behold:
Quote:- Slash Moon
It should be changed into a Basic Attack in an AoE around you. As is, this is just a worse and noisy Heaven Kick.
- Habari Tori
+2 Range for Shukuchi. 110-130% SWA.
- Hyakuhachi Rengeki
Can crit by default.
Animation should repeat twice, given it ends before the attack concludes. Just a nitpick.
- Ryusei Ryugeki
120-140% SWA.
- Bone Breaker
Damage should also ignore protection. The LV should be much higher given this only lasts for 1 effective round. So tentatively, LV15/20/25.
- Ryumai Suikan
Spell's cooldown should be 2 rounds.
The "Recover FP equal to LV when you successfully evade an attack (once per action)." should be LV*2. As is, it barely refunds its own cost.
- Kan Saiganki
The Rock Pillars should last 3 rounds.
- Kokuhaku Kagedan
Spell's cooldown should be 2 rounds.
The Fire ATK should be 110-130%. LV should be 5/10/15.
- Akihono Tobitoro
Lingering (Fire) should be 3 rounds.
Burn should be 4 rounds. (It's a critical hit, so.)
The Fire ATK should be 110-130%. LV should be 5/10/15.
Total Shuriken for bonus effects should be 2/2/2. I don't see anyone running a full Shuriken build for this alone, unless they stop being Tool-tags.
- Arashi Sanseiken
Spell's cooldown should be 2 rounds.
where crit, boss man? coolest skill ever and doesn't crit
The Wind ATK should be 100-130%. LV should be 5/10/15.
- Kagebunshin
Is this really necessary to be a 3 Rank skill when all it does is reduce FP costs?
If so, Sneak and Kage Bunshin duration should both scale from Rank like, 1+Rank LV.
Or get a new effect, that additively increases the chance of Parry happening by 5/10/15% until your next round.
- Usuake
Confusion should be 4 rounds. (It's a critical hit, so.)
- Kiomite Moriomizu
To activate this with the Shinobi class alone, you'd need to Invoke a certain Elemental Art that summons a Nest, which is a lot of momentum investment. By the point you obtain this buff, it'll likely be way too many dodges you missed, and you'd be at low HP by then. And even then! It only lasts 3 rounds at worst.
The LV could easily be 4/8/10. Base Duration should be 5, and amped by Earth ATK.
- Mahi no Miwaku
At least Ultra Instinct/Tsukuyomi was done right. I got no real feedback about this, as it is one skill that may not need to be changed. It does deserve being 2 rounds for its effect, given how significant that is. THIS, is a great example of what a 2-round duration should be like.
- Kaicho Kaisu
(Rank * 25) + (Rank* 2 * Tiles Absorbed) = Which is a maximum of 147 HP healed. Compared to the current 111 HP. Just slightly below the damage from your average critical hit from a duelist's basic attack.
- Swift Grab
Seems good enough. I don't personally use it, though.
Wonder if you could make it so this can critically hit (once every 5 rounds) and refund 1M for the purposes of a full Combination Fighter Bone Breaker combo. Not necessary, but would be funny.
- Shinobi Step
Why does this exist when we have Shukuchi, Kagebunshin, Crane Hop and many other better options? Give something more to it.
Like for example, after a Shinobi Step, you activate Riposte until your next round.
- Invoke Elemental Art
Eh, seems fine. Sadly as is, it feels like a mandatory usage of a White Spirit. Wish it was not so, but no way to retroactively fix this problem, and this might also be an unpopular opinion. So leave it the way it is.
- Sensui Shippu
Seems fine too. The duration is short but it's intentional. The only change worth considering is lowering the momentum costs from 3M to either 2M or 1M (but a higher cooldown on this, if so). That way it's more a safety net than a guard-tier investment.
- Furinkazan
Love the aesthetics. But anything that spells 'damage' coming out of its effects is a hillarious tickle on enemies. You do all of the cool handsigns, charge up, and release this powerful myriad of elemental power-- only to deal a crippled 50% of your SWA, and some Elemental ATK that barely compensates it.
Don't forget that damage reduction is not only the %, but also Armor/Magic Armor. The receiving end of damage will always take at least half of any intended damage. So basically, only 25% of your true attack potential will be the damage caused by this, roughly speaking.
- Hand Signs
Pretty cool, no changes needed.
- Assassination Art
Wish it had a better animation, like throwing black shurikens towards the enemies (the ones from Akihono Tobitoro, but black).
The damage's a tad lackluster. If it could be a base of 5% of their Maximum HP + whatever else and its bonuses, it'd probably be a bit more significant for Back Attacks.
- False Target
PEAK. THIS IS PEAK.
- Kenpo Master
PEAK. THIS IS PEAK.
- Concealed Weapon
Eh. Quite insignificant, but it's only 1 point so it's whatever. Would be nice if it was +10 instead.
- Formless Form
PEAK-- Okay, not so much fanfare, but you don't know how significant it is to have -10% FP costs to movement skills has been amounting to letting me dash another time, or not get shafted so harshly by Repeat Action's penalties.
- Gear Mastery
I still don't understand how this works, so I just assume it makes item belt skills and abilities deal more damage.
- Shuriken Wrap
That's a kunai. >:c
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Blazing Sol's FP costs |
Posted by: Snake - 07-10-2025, 12:35 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (1)
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I know this skill is hated and all, but its costs and cooldowns were a little overkill.
It took me trying to use it a couple of times to see how massive its costs are for the benefits.
It costs 50 FP to activate (a cost attributed with map-wide techniques, invocations, transformations and so on), then 15 FP per round to sustain (up to 3 rounds total). That’s a minimum of 65 FP and a max of 95 FP. After that, you lose all your Sol Charges and can’t use this skill again for 5 rounds.
Think about it for a moment. You first need to spend rounds to charge up your Solsphere, then at maximum, assuming they didn't get consumed by any other effect you'd more immediately need, then this skill drains a chunk out of your FP, and holds your stacks at gun point until the duration of the effect is over. All while Solblader has no FP regen tools, and sure, while FAI gives you some FP, the class is also meant to scale with LUC for Lightning ATK on an alternate use of it, which does not help with that aspect whatsoever.
Wall of Light style is very limited on mobility. It can't afford to reposition every turn just to keep Holy Aura up, given how every single point of Momentum matters for them, and Flash of Light ignores the condition entirely by spamming Roundtrip to refresh Holy Aura, thus making this skill irrelevant for that style in particular.
I get that the nerf was to rein in Speed of Light, but that's been handled now; especially after the (v3.00) changes to Combination Fighter. This skill which is the only saving grace for Wall of Light now feels like collateral damage and may need to be readdressed whenever there's room for it.
Here's my suggestion for a tweak:
>> Lower the cost from 50 to 25 FP.
>> Remove the over-time FP costs. Replace it with "Every round, deals 15 protection-ignoring Light (or Lightning) damage to yourself and all enemies in 3 range." I'd rather this cost HP than FP to upkeep, since Solblader has a heal either way.
Reevaluate if Speed of Light is even a problem anymore post-CF tweaks. This skill shouldn’t still be this costly due to outdated balance issues.
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Undeniable Toughness & Stat Investment |
Posted by: Snake - 07-10-2025, 11:05 AM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (6)
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Undeniable Toughness currently costs 30 base STR, 30 base WIL, and 80 base VIT — totaling 140 base stat points just tossed away from your build. In comparison, Undeniable Innovator only costs 80 base APT. The cost is heavy, but at least you can still build something around it.
With Undeniable Toughness, that's unfortunately not possible.
Toughness gives you up to two revives, but with severe drawbacks: debuffs to healing, damage, momentum, and reduced max HP. It's not a comeback tool unless your opponent lets you idle for 3 whole rounds — which, in most cases (especially against NPCs), they won’t.
Innovator, on the other hand, offers broad gameplay flexibility at the cost of about 20 stat points in scaling. You still get to shape your build, with some minor (or sometimes major) trade-offs in damage, hit rate, crit rate, crit evade, damage resistances, HP or FP.
The problem with this new Undeniable is, undeniably (heh!), the cost.
You're forced to invest in three stats, STR, WIL, and VIT, which may not align with your build, just to access a trait that doesn't even guarantee a turnaround. Compared to Innovator, which costs 80, the 140 spent here is incredibly steep and restrictive.
Just to put this in perspective, out of a total 240 stat points: - No Undeniables (your average build): 20 VIT + 36 APT = 56 points spent → 184 free (23% used)
- Undeniable Innovator: 80 APT + 20 VIT = 100 points spent → 140 free (42% used)
- Undeniable Toughness: 80 VIT + 30 STR + 30 WIL + 36 APT = 176 points spent → 64 free (73% used)
That’s almost triple the investment of a normal setup, and 76 more points than Innovator — a full 31.6% of your total budget gone just for the trait.
My suggestion:
Reduce the STR and WIL requirements to 10 each, while keeping VIT at 80. This would bring the total cost down to 100 points, still a significant investment, but far more balanced and (hopefully) comparable to Undeniable Innovator.
And to set the path for any future additions to not be so nutty heavy on stat investments.
I don't think giving your opponent a difference of 30 Character Levels for 2 scuffed comebacks is fair.
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