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Misinformation and System Abuse - The Great OOC War Of Korvara |
Posted by: TCBlade - 09-07-2022, 08:58 PM - Forum: General Discussion
- Replies (12)
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"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Winston Churchill
6:26 AM EST. Having fallen asleep with my laptop still plugged in the night before, I awakened to the sounds of pings from Discord. Checking my phone as I got up, I was shocked to find a couple concerned messages that something in my DMs leaked and some of those people were worried that someone was trying to get me banned. Once comfortable and properly awake, I sent a DM to someone I was concerned with potential involvement for answers.
This was the start of my morning, and one I was certainly not expecting to go the way it did. As a leader player, I knew about the potential war on the horizon, and I knew some would definitely disagree with anything I said or did. However, you can imagine my shock at seeing this. Several hours later, I talk to the player in question, Shivania, and we start discussing the matter at hand. Apparently I'd been told some misinformation by members of our community, and I was explained what was actually going on. At that point, once I got clarification, it was all good. We chatted about how things were going, but eventually we settled on one major topic at hand: the misinformation. We both agreed that we should probably oocly state what our ic intentions were for the future, especially in light of what was going on, and that's where this topic began.
Shivania listed off a set of concerns with what was going on with Geladyne, stating I was escalating things and being much more aggressive than Geladyne, and that I, and Meiaquar, wanted this war. In response, I'd responded with what I knew, which was practically the same information, but Geladyne was the supposed "bad guys" here, rather than Meiaquar. Issues such as falsely stated information that neither party had said, or if they had, not in the same way as stated, issues of who was actually the one pushing for things, of how people were reacting, of how people of each side were leaving their nations for the exact. same. reasons. It was at that point that we realized just how parallel the situations were. After some further clarifications and discussion, we had ironed things out and knew what the other side was thinking, about how both sides had, in essence, their bowls filled with the same food, but different brands.
I won't walk you through all the details, but when we finished the discussion, it was made clear that much of our information was false, that the barrier between ic and ooc interaction was blurring, and that folks were abusing the fact that all was "100% ic." People weren't talking when they should have, individuals in the community were spreading misinformation like wildfire, and people were being told "facts" that were actually lies, myself included. The same thing comes down to this potentially upcoming war.
While some false information is healthy for ic, and it keeps matters interesting, the issues begin when ic becomes so heavily diluted by ooc info, as well as straight up wrong info, that it blurs the line of truth and fiction. Nowhere has this been more apparent than the war. Turns out, from what we discussed, that neither Meiaquar nor Geladyne wants a war with each other, let alone a pointless one. Meanwhile, both are being told the opposite; "your potential enemy is pushing hard for it and they're the crazy ones!" Discussions, negotiations, and peace talks can't occur because the narrative of "them bad, us good" is consistently trampling the truth, putting a gag in its mouth and refusing to let it speak. More and more misinformation spills onto the path between, and both sides are stuck trying to wade through it, only to be met with more and more, a seemingly endless pool. And because what? People want war? It "keeps it interesting" in the long-term? We're far beyond that now.
Now, you might be asking, "Hey, Blade, why didn't you go talk to one of the higher-ups in Geladyne to sort things out in DMs?" I considered it, but I was told myself that no one was willing to do so. I don't know enough to say whether that was spread to them as well, but if I'd been made aware that was a lie sooner, I wouldn't be just covering it as it forms to a head. At the end of it all, the leaders of Geladyne, as well as our people in positions in Meiaquar, were just reacting to the information given to them. We either had no way to know it was icly false if it came from someone else, or if it was, "ic is ic," we can't call them out on it without metagaming. Like I said, don't know how much this impacted Geladyne, whether it was better or worse, but I'm quite certain they were dealing with the same things. I make the same assumptions for Telegrad and Duyuei. And leaders/reps from those countries, if that's not the case, feel free to state it's not so this very set of statements does not join the countless pieces of lies and misinformation that lay out there, festering and sapping the fun away from the game.
Well, what does this mean? Clearly I'm coming to the forums to bring it up and bring about change, right? Well, yes, that's the goal, but change is impossible to make when only one person, a pair, a small handful, are the ones trying to bring it. In the words of George Orwell, "In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." And I get it, it's an arduous task, but if no one covers it, how long will it continue to amount for? When, if at all, will someone else bring it up? Change doesn't start unless someone is willing to take a daring leap, a risk of sorts.
I've devised three solutions to deal with the war issue and how to go from there. I'll go through each, starting from most preferable:
Option A: The Big Red Button.
- We retcon part or all of the main issue, up to the point of the end of the first Beggar's Hole incident (I can hear the booing now, please let me explain). Major events, such as Wasgow/Beggar's Hole and Fairview being recognized should still stay, as they are unrelated, as well as any unrelated rp. It'd be wrong to rip any of the character building moments that weren't relevant to the topic away from y'all. We would just retcon the events leading up to the possibility of war because, frankly, if things were purely ic, things would not have gone the way they did. If war still might happen, and if people want to lead things back to similar circumstances, it will allow both parties a fair and comfortable opportunity to icly voice their concerns and speak without worrying as though a supposed lunatic on either side is starting things or going to undermine a discussion.
- More ooc channels (and some ic, probably) are kept between the leaders and people of government. This way, if something questionable comes up, there is the room to ask, "Hey, is this icly true?" and have the potential to get an answer. It would also help all the roles, of which are the most susceptible to misinformation being handed right to them, to ensure proper communication, and that if we do have another situation like this, we have the proper measures to either prevent it, or to narrow its impact.
Option B: Go Off With a Bang. Shivania's solution, with a little extra.
- Plan for a singular event to solve it all. The leaders themselves, regardless of who wins or loses, regardless of which side is which, should be left in office as it feels scummy knowing that someone in Geladyne, let alone myself, could be killed because of misinformation that they needed to icly act on, all with little to no knowledge that it was false. Gets the war over without penalizing either side unfairly for working with what they were given. Life resumes as normal.
- Ooc channels are made, along with the ic. Same kind of situation as the last, as both options require a way to ensure misinformation does not spread, and if it does, nip it in the bud before it has a chance to flourish like it is now.
Option C: Council Is Now In Session!
- Regardless of how matters are, we schedule an ic meeting on neutral ground when it works best for those involved and anyone they want to bring. To prevent filibustering or getting off-topic, we find and designate a player willing to be involved that remains unaffiliated to any country (to try to reduce potential bias). Each side gets to bring up what they know and can remove the level of falsehood present while delivering their side's point of view. Everyone in the location would be on equal footing, so one side is checked while the other isn't, or a different side gets more chances to bring up their concerns than the other (as best as we can do). The situation is then resolved naturally, going strictly on what was discussed icly.
- Ooc channels could still be made, DMs could be called for, I don't know. Same kind of situation as both previous. You gotta increase level of communication to make sure this isn't a problem, even if it's oocly because people might potentially be mucking up things again on the ic side. As has been stated in another topic regarding recent events of a different sort, communication is key.
Of course, I just want to state that there are certainly other options, and I'm sure one is out there that appeases as many people as we can without compromising the integrity of the game. At the end of the day, myself and several of those I've talked to prior to making this post just want this slew of issues gone and dealt with so there's less stress on the minds of us all. If the war happens, it happens. If leaders or positions of power die, they die (and if I'm among them, I know what I signed up for, so it's whatever). Nonetheless, this issue cannot remain if Korvara is to succeed, and if it does, it has the potential to push players away from the game, if it hasn't already. So please do voice your thoughts and solutions, and please ensure this does not dip into the dark. This kind of situation is not healthy for the game, and the sooner we can address and solve it all, the better.
Edit for clarification: Situation wasn't enough on its own, but people were more so worried it was being used to try to get me into trouble. It was an image of me asking Shivania about something semi-jokingly, semi-serious that I'd been told by someone (and I'll keep mention of who out of it, with respect to them).
Major Edit #2: I have been informed that a few people believe I'm trying to use the idea of a retcon to get out of the situation. I should start that I put it on the table as a potential option because it would wipe the slate clean and give a fair chance for everyone to do things again without the current clouds of lies, deceit, and misinformation currently in their minds. If it came off as that, I apologize, as that was not my intent with that. At the end of the day, whatever happens will happen, but it was just an idea that popped into my mind that could work, given the severity of it all. If you still want screenshots, Shujin gave me permission, so let me know.
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Update Pillawag |
Posted by: BoberJones - 09-07-2022, 04:06 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (4)
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as an avid Pillawag enjoyer, there are some issues with how it works atm and some things that it doesn't have
so here we go
what it can do
-destroy traps
-destroy tiles
-hit from strange angles / multiple people
what it cant do
-it cant use crash potions
-it isn't a great axe : (
maybe unintended things it does
-destroy its own tiles it makes
-not be able to attack runes ( they take no damage )
-ignore geist entirely because it hits the ground
-doesnt work with crash at all, nothing changes
-destruction runes removed ravaged as well(?)
suggestions
- make pillawag a great axe bks rejoice
- prob make it able to use crash potions but remove the tile effect when that happens
- make it not destroy ravaged tiles created by you
- perhaps let the use alter between single tile and three tiles? this way it can hit runes or maybe they just want to delete 1 tile ex: ally used smoke and its all around, i only want to destroy one tile
- i hate boxers but i will say pillawag bk can just nullify the giest mechanic entirely, they cant giest the attack, they then get clumsy applied after. might be best to have the strike apply as a single target hit if possible still? idk, i will say i do feel for the boxers that get bamboozled
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Another bloody Priest thread. |
Posted by: Skullcatrons - 09-06-2022, 10:52 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (10)
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Continuation from: last thread.
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Welcome to the 89th Priest Problem Thread.
Written by your truly, Man who never stop asking for a Priest reworks. 2022 edition, and animated funni spinning symbol.
You may not request for Divine Shower nerfs.
(Because Dev already had them in the incoming patch. Enma's too.)
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The problems with Priest,
was not that that they're a bad class.
The problem was that they were too good of a statstick class.
Almost so good, it is almost a frequent pick for most meta-builds.
The Priest itselves offer absolutely no main-classes, and most of the skills it offer
are hardly worth caring about because the values they offer are next to worthless.
This is a thread designed to speak more of the Priests' problem, and errors. For most of the discussions, refer to last thread as link provided above.
Bear in mind: The issues are simple.
The class itself have no actual identity barring roleplay.
Most of the Priest skills are completely lackluster.
It is so lackluster, it is often no surprises that you may end up with skillpoints left over,
because you don't know which skills that are actually worth taking, due to how many of those skills
that really do not matter.
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Reposted from previous thread, plus some modifications:
GOOD STUFF
STAFF MASTERY
The passive that does not even require a Main-class. For every stave equipped, you get a +1 increase to WILL, and FAITH. With the talents, you can have up to whopping five staves. Meaning you get +5 to WILL and FAITH! Insanely strong!
PIETY
Coupled with this passive, you can get another +6 FAI. Meaning that you can have +11 FAITH all together from just passives, and staves. That's big jump in Faith number.
DETAILED CARE
Detailed Care are in a sense, very good passive to take up when you need to heal a friend. With a 50% boost to healing, as long as they're within a tile of you. You can heal them for well over 300 heals if you're standing right next to them. It's generally hard to get party-member to cooperate to get healed, but it's very strong healing if you can reach them regardless.
MALMELO
Malmelo is very, very good. With high enough faith, you can heal all your party-members regardless of distance 30% of their health. Making it very strong heal that applies to whole party. While it have good uses, it have cooldown of seven turns. Don't expect to use this much.
DIVINE SHOWER
With incoming nerf soon, nobody knows the fate of this skill. . .
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[i]MEH [/i][i]STUFF[/i]
[i]Mercalan Mist[/i]
In the current iteration, the Mercalan Mists is nice combination for a Lightning Mage to get a 25% Weakness (With Idol) on an enemy. Previously, before it was nerfed, Mercalan Mists allowed lightning mages to get 35% weakness instead. Which was great invocation worth taking, but after the nerf. Not so much. You'll find some lightning evokers still take advantage of it, but ever since the nerf, not many utilizes it. In addition, the Mercalan Mists adds evade to "buffable evade", which means it will be capped at grand total of 50 evades across all buffs. And finally, a regen at 25% of your Light ATK which may seem big on paper, but in actuality means nothing big. It is an okay invocation, not completely trash.
Sanctuary
The Sanctuary is still capable of being countered by being pulled out of it, or swap-positioned to make it disappears. It's decent AOE preventer, and is only actual way to prevent Dark waters from spawning on your location.
Strong Legs (Treatment Skill)
Only worth it if you're first to go. Only absolutely (100% chance) possible back when Tactician's On My Mark passive used to place you first in turn-order before your partymembers could move. Now it's kind of hard to guarantee.
Shine Rays/Needles/Holy Shock
There is nothing wrong with them. They're effectively Light-based DPs skill in the Priest's arsenal. Holy Shock requires Lightning though. Expensive as hell to cast too.
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BAD STUFF
Gentle Torrent
With introduction of the Performer class, Gentle Torrent is even more worthless in comparison when it comes to debuff-erasing. This is because Performer's Cantus of Consideration (upgraded) outright erases negative debuffs, while Gentle Torrent only decreases debuff by one duration.
Purify Poison/Cool Burns
Have a worst scaling than the Staves counterpart. Can get stronger alongside Detailed Care, but effectively eats up skillpoints at that rate.
Longterm Cure
May, or may not work according to some people. Also requires you to be able to cure said debuffs with treatment skills (either before it expires, or you're faster.)
Mercalan Tenants
Still garbage. Still trash. And honestly I'm an Flammian. What's a Mercalan Tenant?
Divine Judgment
Unless you're playing a Theno Aquamancer/Priest with Dark Authority or Hexer/Priest with Sanctified shoes. Divine Judgment would not find any uses in either any PVP situation, or PvE situations. You also need to use Light-based attacks on Judged enemies. So this skill exclusively only worth it for those with light damages. And Dark water.
Shine Knight
he reason why this spell sucks, is because of two things; One. They take a whooping 15 monument. Meaning you have to spend two rounds, and a half just to summon two level-60 Shine Knights that while their benefits once summoned are great, you can be interrupted. Believe me when I say this; but because it takes two rounds. A player can knockdown you continually to prevent you from casting Shine Knight in first place. So it's kind of lame, and intensely situational outside of party-fights.
God Rod
A completely waste of anyone's time. Only exists to make Monk Priest's Stave a casting tool.
Devocation?
![[Image: TqaU7hc.png]](https://i.imgur.com/TqaU7hc.png)
Remove it.
___________________________
How do we fix it?
Combine the Treatment Skills all into one skill called Medica, Purificiala, or whatever.
Remove the long-term Cure skill completely, and merge them into Treatment skill to provide a 2 duration debuff immunity.
Turn Strong-legs into Bulwarking, in which for 8 turn CD cast, Priest can apply a 3 turn knockdown immunity.
Either change Gentle Torrent entirety, or remove it outright.
Change the Shine Knight's invocation stages, or change it so that all party-members undergo Shine Knighting immediately after cast (Weakened version of Shine Sword's Shine Knighting)
Add more weapons to be god roddable, or change God Rod as a whole.
Mercalan Tenants should be providing more FPs, or changed into something more rewarding. (Stronger healing that cannot stack with Elves' racial?)
Also refer to the previous thread linked above.
___________________________
ELVEN NONSENSE
![[Image: elf-non-sense.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/R-Tfaz302lUAAAAC/elf-non-sense.gif)
Base Elves have the best racial for healing. Increasing the base spellpower of any healing spells by scaled SAN. Yes. You heard me. SCALED SAN.
That mean with some buildtesting,
![[Image: 18Umttd.png]](https://i.imgur.com/18Umttd.png)
It would make it extremely possible for an Elf to just single-handedly pull a big fat graft heals. Or repeating abuse Stave of Mending to do over 100+ heals no matter what.
So how do we fix elves?
Half that SAN. With a swift kick to their crotch.
In this thread, me and my homies hate on the knife-ears.
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[v.2.63c] Impure Element procs on pre-cast |
Posted by: Snake - 09-06-2022, 04:51 PM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (1)
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Impure Element's Void Energy-to-Null Damage drawback activates upon chanting a spell (1st use), and again when releasing the spell (2nd use).
It should not work on cast (1st use of any invocation), since it does not use any Elemental ATK yet as you are preparing it, I think. And sometimes that same damage works to break the invocation, which makes this very janky.
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Conflict, Roleplay, and OOC |
Posted by: Soul_Hacker - 09-06-2022, 02:33 PM - Forum: General Discussion
- Replies (51)
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Hello, all. Apologies if I get any formatting wrong, I'm certainly not used to making a post like this.
To be honest, dozens of little things have been bugging me ever since I rejoined SL2 to play Korvara. Korvara was touted as different, it was touted as a place for player-driven RP and progress, rather than the relatively stale state of the Great Six that can only ever have 'change' with the intervention of GMs or Eventmins. A place where players made the story of the world, and not just their own stories within said world. This is what brought me back to SL2 after a multiple year hiatus, and what also brought swarms and swarms of new players, eager to see if Korvara could live up to its promises.
Most of those new players have now left. Of those who have not, many are considering it. Korvara is not in the state it was advertised as- or rather, the rules are not in a proper state to allow Korvara to be in the state it was advertised as. SL2 and conflict have always been at odds with each-other, for good and for bad. The mainland did not often allow for organic conflict that truly felt organic, whether it be miles of red tape in the way between you and anything close to an 'event' for your character occurring, the lackadaisical rules allowing for many such matters to descend into little more than carnivals for onlookers who would deride your character's story into little more than funny quips, or simply the stagnant world around them, where the Onigan war always happened x years ago. All of these issues, and more, kept Sigrogana's conflict from ever truly feeling organic.
Korvara was the solution, or- at least, it seemed to be. No more player housing-districts, where most would hide away to do private rp, away from the stagnant world around them. No more would said stagnant world seep into every aspect of roleplay. The players were the rulers, the players the lore-writers, the players the drivers of conflict. This was exciting, this brought plenty of people disillusioned with the state of Sigrogana back to the game, and plenty of people who had never given Sigrogana a chance, a way to see the game at its (hopeful) best.
Things have not turned out this way. Korvara is, in all honesty, a mess. The Rules for Conflict, even as they have been recently revised, are not tight enough to offer the conflict and player-driven roleplay that was offered. My main points of contention come down to the ever-prevailing presence of the mystical non-player-characters, as well as the forewarning afforded (or not afforded) to players for significant moments of RP that their characters should reasonably be around for.
To begin with, the presence of NPCs, while sensible, does little to nothing to enrich the roleplaying experience. In the Great Six? I can make the concession that they are necessary. Players are the adventurers, the trouble-makers, and the leaders are so far above everyone that the mere mention of the Guard Captain would leave criminals wary, the idea of facing waves after waves of mobs to dissuade trouble in major cities, while perhaps not the most entertaining prospect, was one that undeniably made sense in a world that players were little more than onlookers in.
It does not make sense in a world where players are those leaders. Where the head of the Guards is not a mystical level 90 creature meant to come in the most dire of circumstances to stomp out any troublemakers, where the head of the Guard is a man named Clement, a player, with his own backstory, his own ambitions, goals, traits- his own place in the world. The presence of NPCs undermines this. It undermines the efforts the player characters make to change this supposedly changeable world, to mold it, to have a place, as they were promised. Some cases are understandable, of course. Prisons must be guarded, whether a player is there or not, along with many other examples.
However, simply using them as a hand-waving excuse for every little issue or conflict, is stale. Player characters efforts can be undermined with the simple knowledge that no matter what they do, the NPCs outnumber them. Realistically? The solution to this problem is doubtless a complicated one, but I feel it's certainly one to be discussed.
Secondly, the forewarning (or lack thereof) to groups dealing with things they should realistically be aware of is horrendous. Getting a bit more personal here, it is TWICE that Beggar's Hole has been encroached upon by Geladynian forces without forewarning given OOCly to appropriate parties, and this is not only terrible for every person playing at Beggar's Hole, but terrible for the state of conflict as a whole. If Korvara is meant to be a conflict, roleplay driven continent, Geladyne's current conflict with Meiaquar and Beggar's Hole is the most action it has seen on this front. To undermine it with acts like unannounced conflict, while other players have to go through loopholes including at least 24 hour forewarnings to GMs and pleading their cases to make such moves on 'bigger' settlements/nations, due to- again- NPCs, it seems downright mean-spirited to not afford a player-run faction at least some OOC notice so their players can prepare. This is not the only such case of such a thing occurring, either. With a GM's permission, Geladyne's jail was raided while Beggar's Hole and Geladyne were in mild conflict, and many took to the Discord chat to discuss how such matters were unacceptable, and air their ire with the perpetrators that Geladyne was not given proper forewarning. Many of these were the same people who had come to Beggar's Hole with much the same warning: none.
None of my gripes are against the playerbase, nor the GMs, nor the Developer. They're simply against how conflict has been handled thus far, and I post this only in the hopes that it will go more smoothly in the future, and to invite discussion as to how it may do so. If you read all of this, thank you for your time.
TL;DR: Conflict in its current state has proven to be a messy endeavor, and strives should be made to ensure it is smoother in the future, on both an OOC and IC scale.
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Animal Pelt |
Posted by: renowner - 09-06-2022, 05:30 AM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (4)
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Animal Pelt:
Armor: 4
Magic Armor: 2
Evade: 6
Weight: 1
Effect: +2 power to nature spells.
This armor is pretty much useless, and so i'd like for it to be buffed. A bonus to lightning attack, another effect entirely, better stats, or maybe just bonus damage to nature spells are all potential ideas. Its base stats are nothing special, and in fact its evasion is pretty bad. But the effect is just. . . So bad.
Maybe it could be reframed as an armor that makes one feel more in touch with their wild roots? Allowing instinct effects to trigger easier, or to have more power.
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[v2.63c] Back Attack Initiative Scramble |
Posted by: Kameron8 - 09-06-2022, 03:43 AM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (2)
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When getting a Back-Attack on an enemy, it seems like the order in which your team goes is completely randomized. To replicate this, get a team of four people and take note of who is fastest, slowest, and so on. Then, perform a Back-Attack. Note that the order people go is completely random, and has no relation to their initiative stat.
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[v2.63c] Sign Editing Cancelled |
Posted by: Trexmaster - 09-05-2022, 06:41 PM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (1)
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If you enter the sign text editor but hit 'Cancel' this will erase everything written on the sign.
Steps to reproduce:
0. Have a placeable sign down.
1. Click 'Edit' on the sign.
2. Click 'Edit Text'.
3. Click 'Cancel' on the text window that shows up.
All the text that might've been there will be erased.
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