[Lolzytripd]

Can we have another test run of that stat level up idea dev had where you got growth % per level on a static system.

I'd like to see how it would fair now with how high we can get growths from legend authoring.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

I'm not going to get back into a huge rant about how I never want to see this in the game and how it kills the difference between characters based on their stats. Everyone having static stats is a huge turn off and really does not make me want to play. Plain and simple. It kills the realism based off the fact that not everyone in the world is the same, and the game shouldn't be subject to everyone flaunting stats around. Yeah it's not exactly "fair" but life's not always cut out that way. And with the LA system in place, grinding values gone up, it's not hard to go through a reroll and have better, but not the exact same and static stats each time.

I really kind of prefer when something like that can set me apart from people, whether I'm the stronger person, or the weakling who sucks ass. It still shows diversity between characters.

[Ranylyn]

Ryu-Kazuki » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:48 pm[/url]"]I really kind of prefer when something like that can set me apart from people, whether I'm the stronger person, or the weakling who sucks ass. It still shows diversity between characters.

Here's my masive issue with it.

"Oh, this character has a low Cel growth. I'll RP it as a leg injury that never healed right."
*RNG Cel blessed and screwed elsewhere, ends up with more Cel than the things they're supposed to excel at*
"... what the actual ****"

The current system is quite frankly -TERRIBLE- for -RP PURPOSES.- Rather than make a new character, meeting people, making friends, and RPing the dungeons, it's more like "I need to level up first to see how my stats even turn out." A person knows their strengths and weaknesses. A person chooses where they wish to train. A mage who keeps getting strength instead of will, for example, is not a mage who's been studying magic, even if that's what they RP as.

Stats would only be static if people used the exact same combos. I truly believe that fixed growths would enable a bit more diversification. For example: You could min/max to have 65 Will but low stats elsewhere, or you could have 50 Will and still have decently viable stats across the board, allowing you to hybridize without being a one trick pony. Under the current system, trying that second method is death; it's how I had a level 28 Evoker with 12 will, because only a 70% Will growth. A decent hybrid character (Such as a Verglas, which has 25% in 4 stats - terrible for levelling as currently) would actually make it feasible to get 40s across the board, and IMO, this would make stats far more diverse than they presently are with the "min/max or GTFO" system.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Ranylyn » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:33 pm[/url]"]

Ryu-Kazuki » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:48 pm[/url]"]The current system is quite frankly -TERRIBLE- for -RP PURPOSES.- Rather than make a new character, meeting people, making friends, and RPing the dungeons, it's more like "I need to level up first to see how my stats even turn out." A person knows their strengths and weaknesses. A person chooses where they wish to train. A mage who keeps getting strength instead of will, for example, is not a mage who's been studying magic, even if that's what they RP as.

This is entirely highly debatable. When people make stats their everything about a character, that just means the character is flat, 2D, and boring. The game already as is has people running around getting as high as stats as possible and flaunting off their PvP prowess, which is a huge turn off and really is unnecessary; it doesn't need to turn even more into that.

Nobody needs to level or do anything, you can simply RP. Stats don't make a character, they don't make character development, all they do is determine your combat prowess and when a majority of characters don't even fight, what's the point of it? All it does is focus on the combat aspect for dungeon crawling, which half the time isn't RP'd; and some people don't want to RP it.

RP and stats only matter in PvP scenarios, which barely happen. Just because you get -some- STR doesn't mean you won't get more WIL. And just because you don't get perfect WIL doesn't mean you need to. It devalues the differences in characters and kills the RP aspect that everybody isn't the same. If I wanted to be a gray blob, I'd go play Runescape or something.

People are different, their make-up is different; just because you train doesn't mean you'll always achieve the same results as others. Some people are just better at things, some people are just prodigies. It shouldn't be a "oh because I'm this race, I'm going to turn out this way and be like all the others of my kind". That's terrible and completely makes it a "you want to be this class? Pick this race here" type of game. No thank you.

How about we stop making stats the main focus of the game and actually RP instead of trying to be the best at PvP and flaunting our prowess over each other? That's a much better idea in my opinion.

You don't have to get stats, people will mainly use the same combos to min-max what they want, people will become the same and remain these edgy gray blobs whose only goal in life is to act like a pompous ass and flaunt their PvP powers. The suggested system won't do any good other than get people to stop whining about not getting what they want and turn the game into more of a festival of jerks who like to do nothing but be less than decent people in character.

If you want to RP, then simply RP, stop worrying about stats and just allow roleplay to influence your character, not statistics.

[Lolzytripd]

I agree with ranylyn to an extent, which is why I suggested that we have another test run, just to see how it fairs with legend authoring and the base stat cap

the old idea was baseclass +50% of subclass growths available from the get go, so it might be interesting to see how it fairs.

I'm not saying "OMG IMPLEMENT NOWZ FORXCERRRS EVER!NS TOUSE IT>>>" and it seems like you are reacting to it like that ryu.

if it turns out to be a nice thing, perhaps on legend author reset you could choose to level up in static mode, or random mode.


Static mode would guarantee that hybrid characters, and characters in general turn out decent, while random mode retains its chance to produce characters that exceed what static can produce.

[Ranylyn]

*argument against stats and RP*

You misunderstand me. Someone's capabilities are just one small aspect of their character. They're not based on them. A well fleshed out character is anything but flat and boring, and on the off chance something comes up where stats DO matter, such as helping someone track down someone who wandered into a Bandit Den, your actual capabilities being counter to your RP would be kind of silly.

For example, going back to the low Cel example. This could be any number of things, from asthma to weight to injury. If this character was basically able to immediately get where they were needed without fail in RP, and suddenly in a battle they always go last with only 4 move because BK, you see the issue.

As for people RPing stats just to be the best? Braggarts will be braggarts. And screw them. I'm just saying "a rough approximation" would be nice. Even if I DID manage to somehow get perfect 80s across the board, I still wouldn't RP as a perfect person. Because perfection is boring. Flaws are what make characters relatable and deep. My point is that a character able to pick someone up and carry them home if they sprain their ankle should have more than 10 str, for example, so if battles do happen, it still fits the character.

Besides. Some characters make a living off of combat. For example, I have a character who works with Merchants to clear out any BDPs along trade routes, in case the bandits lurking inside come to strike, or their caravans accidentally wander into one somehow. It's an integral part of that character's story and lifestyle. So no. It's not rare for it to matter in the slightest. I'm not going to have that character either act to be some badass if they can't fight well, or pretend to be averse to combat if they do well. After all, not everyone just sits around talking to all day. Some people actually have day jobs. It's part of the character. It only adds to them, never detracting.

Oh, about PVP? You may notice that I'm actually one of the few voices that argues PVE Balance as more important than PVP balance. I could care less about PVP, but not by much. People take it way too seriously, and fuck them. PVE balance has been shat on by their butthurt far too often for my liking. And that's exactly one more reason why I support the fixed growth system. "Hah! I got luckier than you, so I'm better!" Scrap that and flush it down the toilet where it belongs.

You're right that some people do better at different things. However, under the fixed growth system, every race WOULD be viable as every role. A Shaitan, for example, only has 5% base Will, right? But if min/maxed you CAN get that up to 80% after Legend Authoring, which makes the difference between 48 and 60 will. 12 damage. Big deal, right? Under the current system, few people would risk it, simply because of RNG screwage, due to the fact that they know other races do it better. A fixed growth system would be far better for letting any race be any class.


In short, I'm basically stating that everything you've just stated is a fault of the current system and/or community.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Ranylyn » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:46 pm[/url]"]In short, I'm basically stating that everything you've just stated is a fault of the current system and/or community.

In short, I'm basically stating that everything you've just stated will only exacerbate the problems and not actually contribute to RP. If you want to further the benefits of RP, focus on RP related things, like activities and such, not statistics so people can sit there and go "gimme gimme this is what I want and it has to be my way". Suggest mini-games, or something like that, host parties, create conflict.

Stats = / = RP.

Even you argument about people doing combat as a living is invalid. The game is built off of teamwork, and if everyone can solo everything no problem, that point of the game is devalued, and it would only entice people to run around dungeoning and combatting more. There's more to life than just that, come up with an idea and use that instead of "everything in the game must be about fighting".

Stats don't stop you from clearing BDPs and working together with others to do so, RPing the dungeons out as you do. There is honestly nothing to stop you from doing that now other than yourself.

I'm one of the people who doesn't care in the slightest about what my stats end up as because I play this game to roleplay. If that's why you're here, why do you even bring up if someone else has better stats than you? Who honestly cares? It's not that big of a deal nor is it the end of the world.

[MegaBlues]

I think that having the current system, with the option for static level-ups, is a good idea.

You're not hurt by someone else wanting to be able to control their stats. And if you don't like static levels, don't use it.

Of course, you would have to determine which one you'd want to use on creation, and LAing would give you the option to change it for your next run to 60.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

MegaBlues » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:30 pm[/url]"]I think that having the current system, with the option for static level-ups, is a good idea.

You're not hurt by someone else wanting to be able to control their stats. And if you don't like static levels, don't use it.

Of course, you would have to determine which one you'd want to use on creation, and LAing would give you the option to change it for your next run to 60.

That's a lot more fair ideal that I'd be up for, but it still doesn't really alleviate the whole min-max game people like to play.

It also takes away from the "guaranteed 3 stat minimum" feature we currently have. And your stats would be solely focused on your higher ones, instead of having things fluctuate off what is higher, but not guaranteed. Aka, just because I have 97% WIL doesn't mean I shouldn't get STR from time to time just because it's 20%.

[Soapy]

it kills the difference between characters based on their stats.

I really kind of prefer when something like that can set me apart from people, whether I'm the stronger person, or the weakling who sucks ass.

people running around getting as high as stats as possible
everyone flaunting stats around

If you want to RP, then simply RP

you can simply RP. Stats don't make a character, they don't make character development

stats only matter in PvP scenarios, which barely happen

stop worrying about stats and just allow roleplay to influence your character, not statistics.

people running around getting as high as stats as possible
everyone flaunting stats around

doesn't need to turn even more into that.

Everyone having static stats

turn even more into that

stats the main focus of the game

Everyone having static stats

Holy shit.