[Egil]

Rank 5 Cripple Arm: 28 FP for -5 STR/SKI for 3 rounds
Rank 5 Cripple Leg: 28 FP for -5 CEL/Move and -15 Kick DMG for 3 rounds

Not only are these two skills too costly for their mediocre effects and lowered hit with them, but they do much less damage than a basic attack. See:

--- ROUND 0 ---
One-Eyed Male's turn.
One-Eyed Male's turn.
Critical Hit! One-Eyed Male attacks The Black Knight with Sniper Rifle and hits them!
The Black Knight takes 61 Pierce damage.
The Black Knight takes 11 Ice damage.
One-Eyed Male recovered 2 FP.
One-Eyed Male's turn.
The Black Knight's turn.
--- ROUND 1 ---
One-Eyed Male recovered 4 HP.
One-Eyed Male recovered 2 FP.
The Black Knight recovered 2 FP.
One-Eyed Male's turn.
Critical Hit! One-Eyed Male attacks The Black Knight with Sniper Rifle and hits them!
The Black Knight takes 11 Pierce damage.
The Black Knight takes 11 Ice damage.
One-Eyed Male recovered 2 FP.
One-Eyed Male's turn.
Critical Hit! One-Eyed Male attacks The Black Knight with Sniper Rifle and hits them!
The Black Knight takes 11 Pierce damage.
The Black Knight takes 11 Ice damage.
One-Eyed Male recovered 2 FP.
One-Eyed Male's turn.
The Black Knight's turn.

The first shot is a basic attack and the latter two are Cripple Arm/Leg. Their damage doesn't factor in the stat scaling of your gun/bow at all, which makes them even further useless. Thus, I suggest:

A) Revert their effects back to LVL x 3 for CL's CEL debuff and CA's STR/SKI debuff, leave everything else be
B) Buff the damage of CL/CA and make their effects last 5 rounds instead of 3

Thoughts?

[Rendar]

The damage for the gun is actually from it just removing the stat scaling on the weapon. Which also applies to weapon skills such as Repel with them. It's not that they, themself are bugged. It's just that weapon skills with guns are borked.

-15 STR/SKI and loss of off-hand or -15 CEL/KICK damage are both horendously broken in the new system.

5 rounds is also bad, due to the damage that bows can shit out n this regard compared to guns. It's fine as is.

[Egil]

It isn't fine as-is. It's a moderate FP cost for very poor damage and bad debuffs.

[Rendar]

-5 STR/SKI and Subslot loss isn't a bad debuff for a base class skill. Especially whenever you can also tag along it with such things as Magnet Shell's -24 SKI/CEL...

Then toss in -5 CEL/MOVEMENT....

These are not bad skills in any right, especially for a friggin base class.

[Egil]

They cost too much FP and the debuffs don't last long enough for them to be worthwhile to use.

Also, Magnet Shell doesn't stop a low-cel Tank from spamming autohits and murdering you. A buffed Cripple Arm/Leg might.

[Autumn]

Reduce the FP costs cause they got nerfed in stat debuff imo.

[Exxy]

Good, now tell me Celsius Shell and Cripple Leg still allow for movement.

My end thought is this: You're aiming to -maim-, not do damage. No support or love for this thread topic.

[Kameron8]

@Egil

The main power of these skills is the -movement for Cripple Leg and the -offhand slot for Cripple Arm. The stat debuffs themselves may be less than impressive in most scenarios (what good is reducing cel when the only things you can hit with the penalty on cripple is tanks who don't care about cel), but the two penalties I mentioned are a very feast or famine situation.

Some classes don't use normal movement to get around, or at least don't need it. In that case, Cripple Leg is useless to you. Some can ONLY move around with movement. In that case, Cripple Leg single handedly wins the fight for you.

The same thing holds true with Cripple Arm, depending whether or not someone is reliant on their subweapon. The point is, while it would be nice for the debuffs to be consistently beneficial like Goose Bite, the fact that movement penalty and offhand weapon removal exists as a part of them most likely prohibits it.

[Exxy]

Two things I wanted to try throwing in while bouncing off from other posts (as well as my own to an extent):

-Lower Cripple Leg's Movement Reducection to R3=1, R4=2, R=3.

-Have Cripple Skills take away unscaled stats (meaning if you hit a -5 CEL proc, you take away 5 CEL's worth of Evade -before- you hit the soft cap along with whatever comes associated with CEL).

EDIT: Slight edits.

[Autumn]

They're super powerful skills in their own right already, if anything just reduce the FP costs slightly, perhaps 20FP at rank 5