[Rendar]

Guns and Daggers are in an absolutely abysmal state in the current crit market. PRIMARILY Guns.

With recent changes, STR weapons get to build their offensive stat, and get HP and crit for it, alongside SWA. Guns get to build their offensive stat and get flank for it (Pseudo-hit).. but where they're really lacking is crit.

The thing that made crit on STR weapons awful was having to build LUC and CRIT-- and realistically? The main problem child was Boneheart giving 25 crit evade for a torso slot and being able to wall out Critters. Now? STR Critters don't have to really touch LUC at all, since they get (generally) about 20+ crit for existing.. Which counteracts Boneheart (and to a lesser degree, makes Crit Evade a joke)... While GUI Critters are building everything they can and 40 luc and barely cresting 110 crit.

My No-Luck Str Critter is sitting on 116 crit. Just for existing with Purity Edge.

My GUI 40 luc critter w/ Sarasha Gi & RoT+ gets 100 crit, 130 with serpent strikes (Raid Cannon). Maybe this is just a problem of Raid Cannon having zero innate crit and not being able to add parts, upgrades, tools, etc.. but. Zamn.

Crit is BLEAK for gunners at the moment.

Edit: My solution?

Genuinely can we just kill Boneheart at this point? This thing is absolutely overperforming.

[Poruku]

Daggers at least have the crit damage bonus, but guns have terrible SWA. Even shotguns MG with high guile struggles to break the 260 damage wall (with most gun builds hovering around 200), plus they don't really benefit from flank, and lack any kind of crit buffs which means their crits are super inconsistent. The only reason guns are on the map is because of dual handgun with a bunch of on-hit effects being very consistent. Excel rifle builds are truly sad right now

[Raigen.Convict]

Why not grant magic gunner, and Desperado on Demon Hunter some more crit bonus then? And give us more crit on gun parts? It would make things a bit less of a hassle and lastly, why not buff gun crit damage to a universal 115%? If that doesnt break the game...

[Nekojinn]

You mention crit evade being 'a joke' and suggest a nerf to one of it's biggest contributors in the same thread!!

After Crit STR changes, I still believe Crit Evade is pretty strong, you just need to build more now- meaning you may lack stats in other areas, or just accept getting crit every now and then, which is also fine.

I 100% fully agree on guns and daggers underperforming rn, but I don't think killing boneheart is a good solution, before the STR Crit changes I would agree with you, but now if you take away boneheart, then crit evading will truly become a joke.

Other threads have suggested things like Keyshot working for guns,but that'd still leave daggers out.
I would suggest 'give the STR crit treatment for guile' but that would mean guile becomes... super efficient?? it already gives Flank on top of crit damage and SWA on those specific weapons.

Things like rogue can increase their crit with Northern Wind, maybe getting Keyshot for guns would help guns reach that point?
There's really not a easy solution here, every potential solution that comes to my mind has flaws. Before Crit STR I would simply say "kill boneheart", but now we really need boneheart to try and survive axe critters... keyword: Try.

Maybe a buff to the Reaper enchantment specifically would help? or a buff to weapon parts. Daggers/guns are metal so at least they've access to boulder, if they can somehow afford the weight.

[Rendar]

Crit evade is a joke because you have to build 100+. And then you still get crit.

Reverting the str change and getting rid off boneheart is what i meant. My bad.

[AkaInuHime]

Alice gets to about 125 crit fully maxed out using reaper toyatoris with 40 luck, rot, and hellhound rounds for comparison, but it also leaves her hit pretty sad.

As for helping gun crit in particular, you could give guns keyshot, or make sniper barrels slottable on any gun.

Crit evade is a joke because you have to build 100+. And then you still get crit.

Reverting the str change and getting rid off boneheart is what i meant. My bad.

I agree, that's probably the simplest fix. Maybe change boneheart into split defenses with some synergy like 10 ce, 10 status res so it's not overwhelming at any one thing but still a reasonable pick, rather than dumpstering it.

[Rendar]

(This still does nothing for RRC. But. I think that's just something i have to accept until Dev gives us customization on it to get materials and parts)

[Autumn]

Melees now have builds to bust through crit evade walls with enough investment, it sounds like most of the issue comes from crit amount rather than crit evade itself, guns have been discussed as needing crit rate buffs for a very long time, their weapon parts do not contribute anything, and they have no passives that give it crit in the classes that make sense, DH and MG being 2 of the primary ones.

Keyshot at least should apply to guns, this much is repeated ad infinitum without fail, secondly I do think that there should be a bullet type with +10 crit on them similar to a razor blade or cutting head.

After that you shouldn't need much, while multi-shot guns do get to roll for crits more often than some other weapon types, you have to actually achieve a crit rate above 25% for that to matter in comparison to those weapons, and as it stands, gun crit does not compare.

As for daggers, I'm still not fully convinced they are weak entirely, but they do have a dichotomous relationship with the game where they're either obscenely powerful or very weak depending mostly upon the matchup, there's a few factors going into this but I do think that VA's escapes after scoring a kill are lackluster, setting up voidgates is not usually within the class' gameplan, I think it'd be more in line with it if it allowed them to be more tricky with their movement like phase fang might allow them to be. But right now given the base momentum cost, and needing to tether yourself to be in range of one to begin with, they can't really.

It should also be noted that daggers don't have a niche outside of VA generally, Spellthief doesn't want to use them in favor of much superior casting tools, and Dancer's main use for them is as fans for fan throw.

[Miller]

It's really just axes at this point that are an issue with crit. They still have a whole dedicated talent that gives them 7 crit + extra damage while having the best weapon part in the game. Adjust these two and they'll more or less fall in line. At worst, adjust STR crit to 0.3 or 0.2 per point on top of doing this. My honest opinion is that axes were already doing this prior to the update and have needed some form of adjustment for a while.

Guns could use keyshot that's for certain though, shotguns and handguns absolutely struggle with building crit while rifles get extra hit AND crit for free.

Daggers honestly just need a third weapon part imo, give them coatings or something.

Edit:
I'd like to also say that removing boneheart and str crit will literally lead us back to this same situation except it'll just be axes that are 'always critting' (just like right now). STR crit provides 24 crit, boneheart provides 25 crit evade.