[Lolzytripd]

Log of lake here...

Potential mechanical solution behold

Progressive Crit Pity

Being Crit grants X level crit evade vs Crit inflicter until crit inflicter's next turn, stacking, half effective vs attackers other than the causer.
Multiple stacks could be tracked, but only the highest current stack is used for calculations.

So lets say Jimbob crits you three times in a turn, you have level 3 crit pity, which gives you 3X crit evade. Then BobbyJim the 2nd attacks you and you have 1.5X bonus crit evade, he hits twice, his stack is 2X, then Bobbythe third attacks but its still 1.5 crit pity, but her attempts to go for a third crit which gets checked vs his at that point own 2X stack.


This ofcourse punishes builds with access to Low momentum crit checking, like twin dance/ or classes with access to 1m/2m basic attacks

[Poruku]

Buff dagger crit damage by 10% and nerf deadly arms crit damage by 5%

[caliaca]

It's true, same thing as evade. Nothing feels worse than having 0% crit chance on a crit build, or 0% chance to hit. I do agree that triple action is essential to the game being fun, but it's still basically the main issue here. Or maybe it's the part where crit builds can do 300+ damage while others cannot

Why can't other builds do 300+ damage? It's not really that hard? 

Also re: Sawrock's point, the whole 'most builds are ghost bk' isn't even true anymore. 

Yes, crit is pretty widely played right now but like... 

Hyperbole is weird. Mages are also very very highly played and even stuff like DB can hit 400+ damage aoe pretty easily.

1st thing, you read Sawrocks point entirely wrong. He said HIS builds are mostly Ghost/bk. HOWEVER. 

Yes, the majority of the game right now is some form of ghost and or crit build, you can argue this as "hyperbole" but ghost itself even before the changes was a very popular class, bolstered even more by the crit changes. 

The game is currently, legitimately a rocket tag where changing anything to reduce crit chance, fucks crit over at the moment compared to others and such. Crit dmg reduction is also currently not the solution as you've said, damage numbers in general are currently very high.

(also FTR they mean 300+ per attack minimum, and that is very much possible as a critter atm. Its not at all Hyperbole. I do it myself lol.)

I was only saying that the most of the game is ghost/bk thing is hyperbole, which you are right, I did read wrong.  I would very much argue about the 'majority of the game is crit builds' right now. As I've mentioned on discord before, I think this is something where only a part of the game is being seen. Geladyne has 6 rulers at our last firelands event and like, 3 crit builds. That is not necessarily the standard everywhere, but I do fully believe that everyone is a ghost is hyperbole.

The last 4v4 I was part of had one, and the last 4v4 I watched did have 3 total. These are very good pvp players playing stuff like dancer/bonder, aq/performer, verg/druid, druig/ranger, aq/hexer.

I'm not going to argue about any hard numbers because we don't have them, but I do think saying the majority of the game is crit builds is pretty wrong based on what little numbers we do have and what a lot of really good players are going.

I'm not sure what you mean by the crit damage thing. It is a proposed solution, not one that is expected to be reality at the moment.

And yes, again I understand they meant 300 minimum. That is not a hard number to reach.

[Rendar]

Verg/druid is straight ass. Fwiw. I did NOTHING that entire fight except rescue the murder critters into kill positions on people.

[TheGhostlyKnight]

I was only saying that the most of the game is ghost/bk thing is hyperbole, which you are right, I did read wrong.  I would very much argue about the 'majority of the game is crit builds' right now. As I've mentioned on discord before, I think this is something where only a part of the game is being seen. Geladyne has 6 rulers at our last firelands event and like, 3 crit builds. That is not necessarily the standard everywhere, but I do fully believe  that everyone is a ghost is hyperbole.

The last 4v4 I was part of had one, and the last 4v4 I watched did have 3 total. These are very good pvp players playing stuff like dancer/bonder, aq/performer, verg/druid, druig/ranger, aq/hexer.

I'm not going to argue about any hard numbers because we don't have them, but I do think saying the majority of the game is crit builds is pretty wrong based on what little numbers we do have and what a lot of really good players are going.

I'm not sure what you mean by the crit damage thing. It is a proposed solution, not one that is expected to be reality at the moment.

And yes, again I understand they meant 300 minimum. That is not a hard number to reach.

Here is the thing, for the most part, any event I've witnessed, mostly outside of Geladyne (even then the two I was involved in had about a 2 to 1 ratio) has had about a 3 to 1, maybe 2 to 1 split of players in CRITS favor (Again, not ghost, crit. meaning any build based around critting in some form.)

And in response to the crit reduction thing. I'm saying its not a good solution. All you do is nerf crits? Big woop damage is still currently fairly high in other places. You need changes that increase survivability in some way for everyone. (An example being the hp increase suggested before)  Or you nerf everyone's damage ig.


I'm against a nerf, and more for a buff to everyone myself but, that's one no one will really fully agree on.

[Raigen.Convict]

I agree to buffing hp across the board.

[Collector]

The people have yearned to double the hp bonus from stat investment for years! (+240 flat hp to everyone.)

Or, I have, anyway. Please. Pretty please.

also just give them keyshot

[Autumn]

For the most part I realistically just want more health on everyone, yeah. Its a bandaid fix but its a damn good one.

[Ray2064]

I'm not sure if increasing health would actually do much for the issue at hand. 240 IS huge, sure, but it''ll probably only matter to builds that already have good DR to get maximum use out of that HP for the first place. For an evade or a bruiser, 240 HP is...one or two more hits to take.

The builds that'd benefit from it the most would probably be raw DR-stacking stuff, which I'd argue already has one of the best matchups into crit, rn.

[Poruku]

I think at the moment HP is in a precarious state of balance. Some builds rely on high amounts of HP to become tanky. Currently, having 1000 health versus 800 is a big difference. Seven's suggestion is ideal as it would reward vitality investment, making it not a straight up huge buff to dr stackers, and giving more to bruisers that already favor high hp over DR. Still, this would require a bit of a balance pass to things such as Malmelo and Second Chance, but overall I think it would be a healthy change.

Furthermore, it would make battles last a bit longer, and although currently I feel like they're often a little short in 1v1s, the 4v4 battles are already extremely long. I think we should address that issue if we're going to give higher hp across the board. A nerf to healing would help with this.

It would also mean a rethinking of event mob design. Overall I think this sort of change would require a nerf of healing to come along with it. Strategically speaking, higher hp means longer fights, it becomes harder to finish off people quickly. This gives healers more time to heal people who are low and stay alive themselves. One of the counters to healing in teamfights is also interference. High hp makes it a bit more mandatory to use interference against low health enemies (since you might not be able to outright kill them off this turn), and gives more breathing room for the interferenced targets to avoid death. So in general it might not seem like higher hp advantages healers, but it absolutely does, when you think about what healers want: A bunch of people on yellow hp. People who are low health get a chance to retreat, get healed, etc, instead of getting blown up in one turn. It's a subtle difference, but it'll become quite apparent.

So all in all, I'm 100% in for a buff to hp, but we need to make sure to address a few balance issues first or alongside it.