[Joseph Jostar]

i just think it can be a little more interesting than 'your res is now gone', given that the option exists to use your sub-class for non-ice damage. making it something that's not guaranteed would also open it up to have a much lower cooldown. i can grant you the point on circle ring and yuki-onna, but honestly it's kind of dumb that players have access to elemental immunities/absorbs at all but that's a topic for a different thread i guess.

[Snake]

Maybe needing to use it multiple times, like Salamandra Flame?

[Kazzy]

The entire concept of the /class/ needs an examination. As stands, it's just Ice mage Ultimate and a coinflip. Either you have something that makes the class completely impotent, or they win. There is no in between with the sheer amount of map control and damage that a Verglas puts out.

Winters Bite wouldn't have even been the thing I put a CD on personally. I would have slapped that on Ice Spear or Expanding Ice.

[Autumn]

The entire concept of the /class/ needs an examination. As stands, it's just Ice mage Ultimate and a coinflip. Either you have something that makes the class completely impotent, or they win. There is no in between with the sheer amount of map control and damage that a Verglas puts out.

Winters Bite wouldn't have even been the thing I put a CD on personally. I would have slapped that on Ice Spear or Expanding Ice.

The entire concept of the class is fine. DPS balance is dictated solely upon the superiority of elemental scaling and application of said ability, in this case, expanding ice, icicle spear (empowered) have nigh unlimited application due to their global or situationally global ranges.

The building blocks are all there for the class to succeed as a melee focused class, the damage however is not, as SWA scaling abilities without lightning augment on a weapon that cannot be 2handed just don't work as well as they should, with only cold front and rapid kick (again, empowered) holding a candle to the fox stance skills due to their versatility and additional ice ATK scaling tacked onto them under certain conditions. I would dare say that Verglas is actually one of the most well designed classes in the game, and is the very definition of how exceedingly good elemental scaling is over SWA, melee Verglas can feel very satisfying to use if you don't care about the other part that is clearly superior.

Verglas currently stands as a very snowball-y class, it does take it's sweet ass time to get up and running but you feel it when it does, I prefer that style stay to it's fox stance skills. I agree fully that Winter's Bite should not have been targeted however, and that it's outliers should have at least been looked at, those being the empowered versions of Icicle Spear, Rapid Kick and Crawling Spikes, all 3 of these empowered versions drive enough fear to say that ice resistance is necessary to help win the matchup.

Also I think Expanding Ice is fine, it has counterplay options and cannot be their sole offense without serious repercussions to their FP pools.

[sadbot]

I would also like to chime in and say that verglas is not nearly as strong as it’s being made out to be above nowadays. Verglas got hit hard by the GR2 changes in two ways.

Firstly, the much more efficient luminary element method of building it is now kind of a meme because skill tax is a thing, leaving you crutching on spamming a couple of evasion ignore skills with a very one dimensional play style.

Secondly, Verglas and MA at large have +10 passive hit and nothing else in this post GR2, hit stacking race landscape we’re now in. Hitting things as any MA promotion is impossible, and because the entire class path sucks at it ‘just sub X for some hit lol’ is just as much of a kick in the teeth because your sub class is  going to mesh terribly or at the very least not want to do most if not all of what you’re trying to doing with your MA promo.

[InsainArcaneBirdbrain]

I would also like to chime in and say that verglas is not nearly as strong as it’s being made out to be above nowadays. Verglas got hit hard by the GR2 changes in two ways.

Firstly, the much more efficient luminary element method of building it is now kind of a meme because skill tax is a thing, leaving you crutching on spamming a couple of evasion ignore skills with a very one dimensional play style.

Secondly, Verglas and MA at large have +10 passive hit and nothing else in this post GR2, hit stacking race landscape we’re now in. Hitting things as any MA promotion is impossible, and because the entire class path sucks at it ‘just sub X for some hit lol’ is just as much of a kick in the teeth because your sub class is  going to mesh terribly or at the very least not want to do most if not all of what you’re trying to doing with your MA promo.

Not sure I can agree with this in good faith when like, half the classes in the game lack ANY form of hit support. +10 PASSIVELY is actually mildly generous in that regards when the class rewards already stacking SKI to the heavens. This kind of talk is a bit off topic since we're dealing with Winter's Bite CD specifically, but as far as I'm concerned, Verg is in a pretty solid spot. Winter's bite could probably do with a halved CD if not more compared to what it is currently. I'm honestly unsure why the one of the most fair parts of Verg's kit got slammed with such a massive nerf when the actual problem child is usually the empowered icicle spear/rapid kick/crawling spikes, but I digress.

[PantherPrincess]

Yeah, 8 rounds is overkill. During those rounds you're likely going to deal with many alternatives (wash away, cleanse pots, negotiate, etc etc.) to wiping Winters Bite status away so I agree in that this is way too long of a CD. 4-5 rounds is a lot more appropriate.

[sadbot]

Not sure I can agree with this in good faith when like, half the classes in the game lack ANY form of hit support. +10 PASSIVELY is actually mildly generous in that regards when the class rewards already stacking SKI to the heavens.

I agree, many classes are sitting in a terrible spot in regards to hit post gr2. However, my point was that it is not enough and leaves the entire classs path with serious hit problems in most cases. +10 is not enough in the same way that nothing at all is not enough. It’s like saying that MA has it good in that department because it has a 1 and half of everything else has a 0 when the baseline for passing on hit is a 5. I feel that other classes have the benefit of looking to a sub class for support with this, something that MA and especially verglas trying to focus on verglas things can’t do as easily.

In regards to relevance for the thread, I was just making a counterpoint to the call for sweeping changes to verglas based on its overall strength made above.

[Snake]

I don't think Verglas is bad on Hit, since SKI uses Ice. What a backwards logic.

Anyway, don't get off topic. Winter's Bite should have its cooldown reduced to 4. Or, as said, if the enemy is defeated, it splashes to nearby enemies within 5 range and refresh the duration.