[Autumn]

Also- Kadouha is pretty worthless to any Monk that doesn't use Faith, and considering it can be overshot despite its damage output being pretty high is utterly ridiculous. The burst does minimal amounts of damage, and there were several instances in PvP where a Setting Sun would hit for about a hundred damage, but Kadouha at max would do about a quarter of that, if lucky.

You know what's utterly ridiculous? Deciding that a cool skill with a pretty niche factor towards faith based monks that could deserve a buff, instead by removed and replaced by a fucking a sword. A sword, for the fist class.

That'd be pretty dumb, and it sounds like to me its because you have a raging hard on for dragon ball z it sounds like, you know they have a fairly popular BYOND game for that right? We don't need to be as close to DBZ as close as humanly possible mechanics wise and its embarassing to roleplay with people who do this shit.

What is wrong with this thread? I consider it balance fu at this point because you're thinking of removing a skill to replace it with some stupid thing you could literally just RP with a regular sword and mixed martial arts or fist weapon, and then running the appropriate class like Kensei or Ghost or Demon Hunter

[Lonestar]

You know what's utterly ridiculous? Deciding that a cool skill with a pretty niche factor towards faith based monks that could deserve a buff, instead by removed and replaced by a fucking a sword. A sword, for the fist class.

That'd be pretty dumb, and it sounds like to me its because you have a raging hard on for dragon ball z it sounds like, you know they have a fairly popular BYOND game for that right? We don't need to be as close to DBZ as close as humanly possible mechanics wise and its embarassing to roleplay with people who do this shit.

What is wrong with this thread? I consider it balance fu at this point because you're thinking of removing a skill to replace it with some stupid thing you could literally just RP with a regular sword and mixed martial arts or fist weapon, and then running the appropriate class like Kensei or Ghost or Demon Hunter

We have literally two dragon skills for the Monk class,a class that uses fists and not beat people with dragons and this was an idea made by Dev himself that was going to be added to the game. I really don't see what's the problem other than 'one of your characters use Kadouha', considering we can either swap it for this idea or keep both while pleasing everyone.

It's best to create another thread in Balance Fu about buffing Kadouha, but the main topic here is asking for the skill that was going to be in the game, to be actually in the game.

Also, can we please not be hostile or overly aggressive? This is a debate of a suggestion, not a war.

[Autumn]

Okay but this thread isn't about the two dragon skills Lonestar, its about a skill that Dev didn't put into the game for probably good reason, my concern is over a skill that can be niche in it's own right, its not just about my character here, its also about any future characters that would like to use Kadouha at some point, the problem is here is that people here want to replace the skill, as in remove it for something else that can literally just be RP'd out with creative freedom, it doesn't require a silly skill that will need to be finely tuned and balanced, or a skill that just doesn't seem right for a fist class.

A good way to piss off a kensei is to suggest removing something like Wazabane or Hirazuki and replace it with bow skill or a gun skill, its more of a 'why' than a 'why not', and I am by every rights justified in my hostility when people don't show concern for the opinion of others and say 'nah this is fine.'

[Snake]

Welp, let's just solidify things here.

At Spoops. If Dev wants to add that, he'll do, and nobody can stop him because he is the developer of this game. But you did make a LOT of sense with your first post to the point I agree with it from the head to the tail, so chill, you made your point already and it easily overlapped GSM's. In my sincere opinion here.

At GSM. Looks like the Lore Questions got you a little too excited about importing as much elements from DU to SL2 as you can. But our game has a limit of what can or not make sense. And to be fair, 'Ki Blade' would be pretty... 'eh'... for a Kadouha replacement. Just the idea of REPLACING Kadouha makes my butt's hair stand. (It could be a new skill, instead, like fists engulfed with Ki if you are using no Fist weapon, that randomized the damage between Blunt, Pierce and Slash every time you attacked. Or something like that.)

Now at me. I LOVE Kadouha and wouldn't want it to be removed from the game just because it's useless. If people think it should be removed, that's yet another reason to buff it.
And the reason is quite obvious, since it's just nigh-impossible to use it for an expected damage, and even if you do have FAI, it's a waste of points in a lot of other statuses. I've been posting over and over that Kadouha still needs a buff. Increasing the Scaled Weapon Attack and Light ATK were just what was overlooked from the Monk Update. That was no buff, it was an adjustment.
Kadouha was /never/ changed, and it 'should' change to atleast match with the other basic Monk skills.

So yeah, cutting things short:

This can be added if Dev wants. Nobody can stop the Developer. It's his game and his choices.

It might be a better incentive to give Dev the resources needed, so he doesn't have to browse in the internet for them and waste even more time that's being leeched from the only fun he has in this game. (Which is coding.)

Kadouha needs a buff badly, to match with Setting Sun's power level at minimum. It consumes too much Ki for no damage, so... 2% increased damage per Ki consumed might fix this.

[Lonestar]

I just used the dragons as reference for your logic, for it not being a fist class, it wouldn't be fitting using a sword for it, but I disagree. It's not a literal sword, but a 'beam' made of Ki that you can hold it with fingers instead of the whole hand, while applying immobilize, that looks like a sword.
The thing is:
There's no sword that applies that debuff. The only two weapons that applies that is an Axe and a Bow.
If Kadouha's removal concerns you that much, we can go with my suggestion of keeping both and discussing about a buff in the Balance Fu.

And no, a removal of skill doesn't give you any rights to be hostile to someone, for reasons that I won't say here to not cause a massive flame thread.

[Selfish Gene]

I will say that I am in love with this idea. I think it would be neat to see a skill that offers a tad bit more variety and playability to the Monk class as a whole. This isn't to say that the class isn't unplayed since we all know that it's one of the players' favourites, but substituting a rarely used and extremely situational skill such as Kadouha could prove universally beneficial.

Secondly, and I don't intend on putting anyone in the centre of the stage for this, but the "suggestions" thread of the forums is to offer ideas which can be replied to with support or constructive criticism. If you dislike an idea that is offered, you should emphasize on what can be changed about it or how we can work around it as a collective community instead of dismissing the idea simply out of bias or distaste. (i.e. "This skill doesn't seem suitable for a Monk, but I like the idea as a whole. As such, maybe offer this as a Black Knight offensive skill because they're lacking in variety.)

Once again, not pointing any fingers, but I just know that it's better to discuss and share our opinions as a whole without trying to tear down anyone's ideas or opinions either. It's one thing to say you dislike the implementation of a suggestion, it's another to outright discredit it.

Either way, I'm up for this! It sounds neat and I'd definitely look into implementing. I also agree with the idea of switching Terra Strike and Dragon Gale to Kadouha-like skills in appearance because the idea of dragons and monks don't really fit nearly as much.

[Autumn]

Trust me if I shared my actual thoughts about this thread it'd be a bit more than a flame war, going back on topic, inflicting immobilize is a powerful status on it's own and Monk already has an immobilize that has a somewhat specific condition, for good reason too because Immobilize is one of the most powerful things in the game.

Why don't you give it a glowing debuff instead? We need more of those.

[Lolzytripd]

I could see kadouha being used a lot more if whulf's scaling was changed to 50/50 str faith

[FiresTFS]

I agree with Lonestar on it. Looking at Vegito's concept. The spirit sword is less a sword even and more a beam you can control with your hands. I mean, otherwise the dragon skills would have been better in the Mage class?

I think it would also be better if it gained 1 more target possible per 15 Ki (capped at 3 targets with 30 Ki.) That's on first use and only if the three of them are aligned that your range can reach them. (See; Arbalest Cannon skill targeting lines.)

On second use, instead of attacking in a circle, why not in a crescent instead? (Much like.. Uh.. That one Kensei skill no one ever uses.) Something of that sort in range. Still dependable on your Ki for how far you can adjust the range. That would also give Monk some advantage in PvE in my opinion.

As for Kunai's suggestion, I think that kind of adjustment could replace Empty Palms innate for Martial Artist (Gaining that kind of effect when your FP is X or higher, depending on rank, rank*25 maybe?), or one of the innates in Monk that don't seem relevant anymore. (10 Ki or higher maybe?)

Lastly. I don't think Kadouha needs to be removed. It's a good skill if you build right for it.

[Lonestar]

And if would go this way, I, too, would transform this more than a flame war. But we're all civilized (hopefully) teenagers/adults, so let's not get to that.
However, I do agree with you on Immobilize being a strong debuff and glowing being fitting and lot more balanced, so what do you think about this:

The skill using Ki, up to a max of 10, knowing that 1 Ki used = 2 LVs of glowing, to a max of LV 20 Glowing.
Thoughts?