[Ryu-Kazuki]

Rendar » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:34 pm[/url]"]It is next to IMPOSSIBLE to break an invocation, Ryu. To have a decent chance at breaking an Invocation on a mage with 80 WIL, which isn't hard to get...

Let's assume 200 damage, depending on whether or not invocation trait is busted or not, it's either a 20% chance, or a 60% chance to bust it.

200 damage in one hit. That is a LOT.

Compare it to the average person who may deal... 100, it's either nonexistant to break it, or it's about 10%.

Yes a 10% chance to break an invocation is totally fair whenever you deal 1/4th of the person's health in a hit.

A hit that takes two to three turns to prepare, costs nearly 100 FP, and still leaves them open for attack. PD's suggest was a new way to break them while being fair and level. The Mage's "WIL" has nothing to do with it, because again not only mages use Invocations, and who knows where Invocations will go in the future of the game?

Why is PD's idea better? On Guard and Spiked Treads have a better purpose that way, and it still gives you a fair option to break the invocation without doing 1/4 of the Mage's HP and breaking down their way of combat. What are they going to do when you do the exact thing to them you're talking about, but even worse due to the fact that you're stripping them of their way of fighting?

I'm sorry, this seems like nothing more than a way to try to overpower and shut down Mages without any sort of fair compensation in the process.

[Mivereous]

I've never lost an Invocation after taking 100-200 damage, without any points in the Invocation Talent. Am I just lucky, then?

EDIT: And Spiked Treads are for Knockback, not Knockdown.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Mivereous » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:48 pm[/url]"]I've never lost an Invocation after taking 100-200 damage, without any points in the Invocation Talent. Am I just lucky, then?

EDIT: And Spiked Treads are for Knockback, not Knockdown.

I've never been affected by Knockdown while wearing them. But hey, slap Knockback and Knockdown as both new ways to break Invocations.

[Rendar]

"Nearly 100 FP"

Invocations cost FP for the first cast of it, meaning they all, generally, cost 45 FP.

Invocations should be lost since its DAMAGE-WIL with a rank*10% Reduction added afterwards. If they aren't breaking whatsoever from damage, that might be a bug to report.

Knockback is common enough that it breaking invocations is silly, knockdown is common enough that it breaking invocations is .way. to silly.

I have 2 different ways to knock someone down, and one of them is a 17 square range attack so....

[Suspicious]

Invocations are ludicrously powerful despite their investment. If it should be a 'sure thing' anyway, Ryu, why even make them breakable?

Also, you should be casting an invocation from a safe distance, not drop it in the middle of a fight with no one to take hits for you. That's the intention of the damage requirement.

Also also, are you serious about talent points? It is STUPID easy to max everything you need and then just waste your points in other areas before level 40. 5 points is not an 'investment', it's a piddling 'requirement', because you likely don't care about axe/sword/spear/whatever mastery, and most melees don't care for enchanting or most of the 'ancys' and such.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

I never said it should be a sure thing; I use Axe Mastery because I use a Spell edge, and I'm actually stretched for talent points, getting Invocation is one of the last things I get.

I think the talent is fine and vital for -anyone- not just mages, who use Invocations. I am for the mechanic changing though and being broken on Knockdown / Knock back.

Hey, Black Knight Papilions and Black Knight Summoners are a thing. They have invocations too.

Also, it's not hard to get close to anyone using an Invocation.

Shukuchi, Forced Move, etc..

[Rendar]

Pretty sure that Black Knight's don't use invocations. ALso pretty sure if a mage starts up an invocation beside you, you won't actually be able to break it or get out of range because of the knock down.

[Daisuke]

I'm against having them break via knockback/knockdown simply because it'll be a problem for anyone in the future if we ever get invocations past D rank.

I would say making incantations have the dive mechanic like mentioned earlier and then having the invocation talent scale better with higher ranks of invocation would be a good step towards making them fair and balanced.

[Neus]

I think they're fine the way they are. You already give up an entire turn to prep them unless you're using HSDW (where this doesn't come into play anyway). Making breaking the invocation something you can do 90% of the time will just relegate them to never-used-status.

[Blissey]

I never use Invocations, because it's not the best way to go most of the time (for me, at least). I still think that Knockdown and Knockback should break them, as per the rule of "any movement but teleportation" --- except talking, of course. . . And blinking. . . But then again Blinking works. Aha. . . I made a funny.

Although maybe Knockback really is too inane to break an Invocation. . . It just makes logical sense.