[Ranylyn]

Neus » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:05 am[/url]"]

Chaos » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:46 pm[/url]"]This is due to another issue: PvE is only truly suitable for AoE Powerhouses. A good chunk of classes simply don't have the kind of gas that, say, Evoker has to actually stand clearing a well-populated floor.

Somewhat off topic but if there are any major gripes or issues with PvE for non-Evokers, I would like to see a topic started about it, detailing them. I know Evokers (currently) clear them very quickly, but if a class is outright struggling to complete PvE battles, I'd like to have a discussion on it.

I'd be more than happy to outline every class's exact strengths and weaknesses against every PVE enemy type and the synergy between PVE opponents (Example: Restrain + Slider) that causes some classes problems, but people would just accuse me of working against the system like they always do, and say it's my fault for not getting a high level evoker to carry me. Mind if I instead outline everything via PM? Like I said, I AM an Altaholic; I have 11 accounts and play every class extensively (Minus Void Assassin which I largely avoid for RP purposes, so I've only played maybe 2-3 VAs)


Anyways, back to the rest of the topic:

@ Tsundere: First off, thank you for consciously limiting the Ad-hominem. It's actually difficult to do, and I admit I've failed to do so in the past, myself. Some users seem to have extreme difficulties avoiding this, so I really do appreciate it. I just wanted to point this out since I realize I may have appeared hostile in my earlier posts.

Anyways, back on topic:

When it comes to balance threads, EVERYONE pulls numbers out of their rectum. To give a few examples in the past, Ailment chances were changed based on the assumption of 80 will, and a change to Summoners was once proposed based on the premise of all summoners having 50 faith.

When discussing stats, for the record, I did mean 80 MODDED will (Since Sarin always used to curse me out for using base stats.) If you can get over 100% Will (Any race with 25% Will can manage 105% or more with LE bonuses) it's not implausible. 5% averages about 3 growths in 60 levels, and people LE repeatedly until things go really well so stretch this to 6. Add +3 simply for Evoker, bringing you to about 73-75 once you factor in a probable base of 4-6. It's not hard to get 5-7 will elsewhere. Heck, installing does that immediately.

And yes, 45 modded Will -IS- technically within the realms of PVE Viable. If you're an Evoker. If your 45 will is your BEST stat, and you're NOT an evoker, recent changes to PVE enemy resistance can really dick you over. To give you an example, I recently played a lower-level (31) character with 29 total will after installs and such. Using a 5 power earth tome (I had just found it, no time to upgrade. My old tome was "Misplaced" and I died) I smacked a Barghest 4 levels below me (Which is weak to earth) for a whopping one damage. 1. Evokers can basically laugh enemy Res away due to the Charge Mind formula, but any other mage with "normal" stats (Character was Bonder/Hexer, so 35% Will on 2 classes, a decently solid combo) can really struggle.

Another major issue is how the "Minimum 3" system works. Think about it. If you have two classes with like growths, you'll have 80% chances competiing with 20% chances for those growths. You're far more likely to get what you want even if you have imperfect growths. But what about a class like Tactician, which has 25/15/35/10/10/10/0/10? Unless you get REALLY lucky, those growths aren't going anywhere anytime soon. As such, classes with spread growths are, by far, objectively worse, due to lacking the gains to do much of ANYTHING unless they get incredibly lucky. Some promoted classes have 20% in their primary offensive growth. Sure, a monk CAN use Cel to increase Dragon Gale's damage, and they have 30% Cel, but a Ghost has no such benefit.

Furthermore, people won't want to party with you if you repeatedly need to leave to change classes then go back in. Repeatedly leaving the dungeon to change classes just for growths is FAR more "working against the system" than simply playing naturally, which is "working with it." The fact that it is possible does not excuse the fact that growths are an imbalanced mess, and if your answer is just to level with optimal combos, you are offering zero support to the argument that nothing needs to be changed, due to such a work-around being seen as mandatory.