02-16-2022, 03:30 PM
So, just to make sure my two cents is heard, since KPec was kind enough to give us a thread instead of mercilessly screaming over eachother in dev-discussion. Dorime.
On first, I think that limiting everything to PVP would be a step in the stupid direction.
SL2 has a lot to do with freedom, compared to practically every other BYOND RP game. You have the freedom to level, or not level. To play every few days or play every day, with no negatives to doing so (other than missing out on some things). To PVP, or not PVP. I think that this is critical to keeping SL2 a wonderful change of pace from other RP games like Spires or Eternia. If it was forced, then you'd alienate the LARGE (but not exactly vocal) playerbase like myself who HATE doing PVP in regards to a life-or-death scenario where I didn't get the choice to make it that way.
Just to clarify what I mean: if I want to life-or-death PVP against an Eventmin during their events? Fair. If I choose to do that in RP? Fair. If I HAVE to do that and I don't get to pick? Then there's a lack of freedom there, the thing that kept me coming back to SL2 for nine years now.
I don't understand the building process at a lot of fundamental points, and often I have to look for others to create something for me. Numbers go over my head entirely, and I can seriously not force my brain to learn them. It just doesn't click at all. So when I open the build calculator, I have no clue at ALL what I'm doing. Would it really be fair to someone - not even just me - who can't build, or prioritizes the freedom of RP over a mechanical build, to be forcibly and VIOLENTLY ganked in a PVP battle against some powergaming player with too much time on their hands to create a painstakingly crafted doomwall? You're basically flaunting your PVP build on someone just for the fun of it, at that point.
While, of course, you can't *force* death on someone anyways, I think that most parties can be mature enough to not force PVP down someone's throat either. I know a lot of people are more than willing to RP with dice, or I even know a good chunk of people that'd actually fairly RP battle without dice. I actually -love- doing this, it just comes to knowing your characters weaknesses and actually RPing them, which I know in theory is great, but a lot of players fear someone just godmodding - which is against the rules anyways, and should probably be thrown at a GM if it happens.
I simply think on that front that people should be able to mediate between themselves to pick what the best option is between their character. SL2, at it's core, is a roleplay "mandatory" game. People should, after this long since the game's original launch, know other ways to settle a conflict without a PVP battle to determine who's cooler.
On second, while I'd LOVE to have Korvana be a totally IC enviroment where all grinding must be done ICly, I do agree with Tana that in the end, OOC grinding is a necessary evil for some people's IC. Though, there are a multitude of RP reasons why your grizzled veteran can be grinding. Retirement and coming back out, making sure they're not getting rusty, practice in general, that kinda thing. I think it just takes some extra thought that most people don't give because they can just OOCly grind. That's all I can really say about it, because in the end I personally don't care either way - I just think it's gonna be annoying and boring that a large chuck of the Korvana playerbase at launch will be OOCly grinding while I just wan RP...
But I'm also not making a character that needs an immediate build or levels to escape the powercreep, so that's probably a factor.
On third, I think that (since there's no overworld like in Sigrogana) that travel... is very complicated. Obviously, you don't want to make a whole day's worth a travel be an OOC week. But, clearly, there should be time invested into the travel due to the scope. The first solution that comes to my head is to limit the amount of travel you can do - put a five minute timer on every cell change, or something like that... but I have no idea how Korvana is mapped, despite being friends with one of the core mappers (Which - good, even though I love learning about the workings of the game, that'd probably get her in trouble), so I can't even say how pheasable that'd be to do, lest Dev throw in some invisible walls (which ARE possible for sure), or if that would even be a good idea in practice.
I think that regardless, at least in the first stage of a character, don't restrict travel. Unless Dev is throwing us in multiple spawnpoints for Korvana, we'd need to very quickly travel over to wherever our character lives FROM the spawnpoint. If we all spawned in front of Telegrad, or something, then that'd be a giant clusterfuck of players just randomly in Telegrad, without being able to get to the other three factions where they -should- be.
On the other point, and another one I -really- want to bring up also...
In terms of classes, I think that a lot of them you could straight up find lore for in Korvana, rather than locking them away:
Spoilered for your convenience. The only thing I couldn't find a reason for personally was Verglas, since that was created 100% in lore by Hyoyans, and there probably isn't a real reason why it should exist in Korvana... but I'm sure someone could think of something.
I just don't think that there's a point to locking classes behind any walls at all. What you're doing at that point is creating the problem that you're trying to stop - and in direct responce to KPec's idea: because suddenly I get to be Black Knight because I went to an event set at a specific time (and likely in my time zone, if I'm EST), and now I get to beat the absolute macaroni and shit out of everyone else who has to stick to base classes because school, work, sleep, or IRL things kept them from going to the same event.
An eventmin or GM would have to constnatly be doing events to be able to keep everything fair, and I'm sure that none of them have the time to be doing this 24/7. It's not a "shy" thing as much as it is just a problem with having players that have real lives outside of a game.
The one big point I also wanted to bring up was everyone's favorite controversal topic, since it also fits into travel AND rule discussion: porting your already established characters into Korvana.
If your app gets approved, you should have to remake your character from scratch and spawn in like everyone else. You shouldn't just be teleported there.
That's it. That's the suggestion. It's fair to Korvana players, and keeps people from loading their inventory with a bunch of meta gear for their friends. No unfair advantage, just remake and go. You lost your gear in a shipwreck. Your memory of your classes are hazy. Your youkai are somewhere in the mainland.
If you want a fresh start in Korvana, you'd better dedicate to that fresh start.
AWHNEWAES there's my stream of conciousness for'ya. I ramble too, so I go back to lurkin...
On first, I think that limiting everything to PVP would be a step in the stupid direction.
SL2 has a lot to do with freedom, compared to practically every other BYOND RP game. You have the freedom to level, or not level. To play every few days or play every day, with no negatives to doing so (other than missing out on some things). To PVP, or not PVP. I think that this is critical to keeping SL2 a wonderful change of pace from other RP games like Spires or Eternia. If it was forced, then you'd alienate the LARGE (but not exactly vocal) playerbase like myself who HATE doing PVP in regards to a life-or-death scenario where I didn't get the choice to make it that way.
Just to clarify what I mean: if I want to life-or-death PVP against an Eventmin during their events? Fair. If I choose to do that in RP? Fair. If I HAVE to do that and I don't get to pick? Then there's a lack of freedom there, the thing that kept me coming back to SL2 for nine years now.
I don't understand the building process at a lot of fundamental points, and often I have to look for others to create something for me. Numbers go over my head entirely, and I can seriously not force my brain to learn them. It just doesn't click at all. So when I open the build calculator, I have no clue at ALL what I'm doing. Would it really be fair to someone - not even just me - who can't build, or prioritizes the freedom of RP over a mechanical build, to be forcibly and VIOLENTLY ganked in a PVP battle against some powergaming player with too much time on their hands to create a painstakingly crafted doomwall? You're basically flaunting your PVP build on someone just for the fun of it, at that point.
While, of course, you can't *force* death on someone anyways, I think that most parties can be mature enough to not force PVP down someone's throat either. I know a lot of people are more than willing to RP with dice, or I even know a good chunk of people that'd actually fairly RP battle without dice. I actually -love- doing this, it just comes to knowing your characters weaknesses and actually RPing them, which I know in theory is great, but a lot of players fear someone just godmodding - which is against the rules anyways, and should probably be thrown at a GM if it happens.
I simply think on that front that people should be able to mediate between themselves to pick what the best option is between their character. SL2, at it's core, is a roleplay "mandatory" game. People should, after this long since the game's original launch, know other ways to settle a conflict without a PVP battle to determine who's cooler.
On second, while I'd LOVE to have Korvana be a totally IC enviroment where all grinding must be done ICly, I do agree with Tana that in the end, OOC grinding is a necessary evil for some people's IC. Though, there are a multitude of RP reasons why your grizzled veteran can be grinding. Retirement and coming back out, making sure they're not getting rusty, practice in general, that kinda thing. I think it just takes some extra thought that most people don't give because they can just OOCly grind. That's all I can really say about it, because in the end I personally don't care either way - I just think it's gonna be annoying and boring that a large chuck of the Korvana playerbase at launch will be OOCly grinding while I just wan RP...
But I'm also not making a character that needs an immediate build or levels to escape the powercreep, so that's probably a factor.
On third, I think that (since there's no overworld like in Sigrogana) that travel... is very complicated. Obviously, you don't want to make a whole day's worth a travel be an OOC week. But, clearly, there should be time invested into the travel due to the scope. The first solution that comes to my head is to limit the amount of travel you can do - put a five minute timer on every cell change, or something like that... but I have no idea how Korvana is mapped, despite being friends with one of the core mappers (Which - good, even though I love learning about the workings of the game, that'd probably get her in trouble), so I can't even say how pheasable that'd be to do, lest Dev throw in some invisible walls (which ARE possible for sure), or if that would even be a good idea in practice.
I think that regardless, at least in the first stage of a character, don't restrict travel. Unless Dev is throwing us in multiple spawnpoints for Korvana, we'd need to very quickly travel over to wherever our character lives FROM the spawnpoint. If we all spawned in front of Telegrad, or something, then that'd be a giant clusterfuck of players just randomly in Telegrad, without being able to get to the other three factions where they -should- be.
On the other point, and another one I -really- want to bring up also...
In terms of classes, I think that a lot of them you could straight up find lore for in Korvana, rather than locking them away:
I just don't think that there's a point to locking classes behind any walls at all. What you're doing at that point is creating the problem that you're trying to stop - and in direct responce to KPec's idea: because suddenly I get to be Black Knight because I went to an event set at a specific time (and likely in my time zone, if I'm EST), and now I get to beat the absolute macaroni and shit out of everyone else who has to stick to base classes because school, work, sleep, or IRL things kept them from going to the same event.
An eventmin or GM would have to constnatly be doing events to be able to keep everything fair, and I'm sure that none of them have the time to be doing this 24/7. It's not a "shy" thing as much as it is just a problem with having players that have real lives outside of a game.
The one big point I also wanted to bring up was everyone's favorite controversal topic, since it also fits into travel AND rule discussion: porting your already established characters into Korvana.
If your app gets approved, you should have to remake your character from scratch and spawn in like everyone else. You shouldn't just be teleported there.
That's it. That's the suggestion. It's fair to Korvana players, and keeps people from loading their inventory with a bunch of meta gear for their friends. No unfair advantage, just remake and go. You lost your gear in a shipwreck. Your memory of your classes are hazy. Your youkai are somewhere in the mainland.
If you want a fresh start in Korvana, you'd better dedicate to that fresh start.
AWHNEWAES there's my stream of conciousness for'ya. I ramble too, so I go back to lurkin...
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