02-12-2016, 11:35 PM
I came into this thread fearing yet another idiot powergamer going "PVE is too easy because I min/maxed and did 50 LEs and I want normal enemies with 10000 hp at high levels because I kill everything in 2-3 turns and fuck everyone who isn't as broken OP as me" I then noticed Trex started the thread, and Trex is not an idiot. Crisis averted. I am 100% on board with making PVE less of a boring slog and less of a lottery.
I do need to say this about LEs, though: It makes impossible builds possible. For example, if you want to be a Str/Wil character, absolutely nothing has both growths until promoted classes. So not only does it actually let people actually play classes efficiently (Bonder especially, since it's got weapon skills and 35% str despite the base class having 0% Str, wasting 1/3 of your total available levels just on unlocking it) but it also lets people who get RNG screwed not need to completely delete and remake their character (especially in light of the twinking rule *gagging noises*) So I completely believe LE to be a neccessary evil. There's a lot of IC options available through it, like corruption, vampirism, etc, which is also cool. So keeping promos available at level 1 post-LE is a definite must, unless we get a large selection of new base classes with more varied growth spreads. And if someone wants to grind endlessly until they get 80 base on a 105%... well, that's their choice, and their suffering. Not a fault of the LE system. I've actually made characters who turned out so decent the first time, I never LE'd at all, AFTER the implementation of the LE system. (Not to mention... remaking instead of LEing =- losing all your recipes, mirror shards, etc, remaking is actually a pretty massive sacrifice!)
The downside comes with things like noncombat characters needing to LE for LE bonuses on crafting levels and the like. I mean, REALLY!? Are you freaking kidding me!? LE should be an OPTIONAL BONUS, not a LITERAL REQUIREMENT, like it presently is to be able to even get a 50% chance on crafting some Black Book items. *strangles SL2 as a whole for making everyone 100% required to do combat unless they only sit around talking and nothing more*
Don't get me wrong. I understand where you're coming from. But even a non min-maxer, non grinder like me finds the LE system to be a literal requirement for some of my characters, even though most of mine are more purey social RP oriented and never even hit 60 at all! So yeah.
Back to your main points, though, I'd actually totally be in favor of raising base class growths. Anyone with any knowledge about Martial Arts knows the basics don't suck; they're an important fundemental you build on. The impression some people have that base classes need to suck is hilariously laughable. (Seriously, if I had a dollar for each time I'd seen people complain "It's a BASE CLASS SKILL, it's not supposed to be good!" I'd be able to buy a new gaming rig!) A promoted class is just a more specialized skillset to be used alongside the basics (as seen by the promoted class getting all the base class skills) and are not supposed to completely replace them. So as such, there's no real reason to make base class growths suck as much as they do.
I'm torn on your LE growth bonuses becoming an increase in stats suggestion, though. Let me explain my worry. Take a 20% Will class whose passives are very much of benefit to mages, like Umbrals or Papillions, for example. As someone who's missed 3 97% growths in a row with Lady Luck, well, let's just say the RNG can go choke on a big one. Presently, 100% growth vs 95% growth (the best a 20% will growth class can presently manage with and without that LE bonus) could mean the difference between 64/64 or the difference between 64/40. While many who are already over 100% growths (such as Liches) would no doubt love this change, I think many people may prefer the simple guarantee of not missing stats versus getting bonus stats, and it could serve to create a larger power gap between races.
As for the Legend Ink suggestion... I'm all for anything to not need to regrind to 60 just to get a catalyst for an enchant >_
I do need to say this about LEs, though: It makes impossible builds possible. For example, if you want to be a Str/Wil character, absolutely nothing has both growths until promoted classes. So not only does it actually let people actually play classes efficiently (Bonder especially, since it's got weapon skills and 35% str despite the base class having 0% Str, wasting 1/3 of your total available levels just on unlocking it) but it also lets people who get RNG screwed not need to completely delete and remake their character (especially in light of the twinking rule *gagging noises*) So I completely believe LE to be a neccessary evil. There's a lot of IC options available through it, like corruption, vampirism, etc, which is also cool. So keeping promos available at level 1 post-LE is a definite must, unless we get a large selection of new base classes with more varied growth spreads. And if someone wants to grind endlessly until they get 80 base on a 105%... well, that's their choice, and their suffering. Not a fault of the LE system. I've actually made characters who turned out so decent the first time, I never LE'd at all, AFTER the implementation of the LE system. (Not to mention... remaking instead of LEing =- losing all your recipes, mirror shards, etc, remaking is actually a pretty massive sacrifice!)
The downside comes with things like noncombat characters needing to LE for LE bonuses on crafting levels and the like. I mean, REALLY!? Are you freaking kidding me!? LE should be an OPTIONAL BONUS, not a LITERAL REQUIREMENT, like it presently is to be able to even get a 50% chance on crafting some Black Book items. *strangles SL2 as a whole for making everyone 100% required to do combat unless they only sit around talking and nothing more*
Don't get me wrong. I understand where you're coming from. But even a non min-maxer, non grinder like me finds the LE system to be a literal requirement for some of my characters, even though most of mine are more purey social RP oriented and never even hit 60 at all! So yeah.
Back to your main points, though, I'd actually totally be in favor of raising base class growths. Anyone with any knowledge about Martial Arts knows the basics don't suck; they're an important fundemental you build on. The impression some people have that base classes need to suck is hilariously laughable. (Seriously, if I had a dollar for each time I'd seen people complain "It's a BASE CLASS SKILL, it's not supposed to be good!" I'd be able to buy a new gaming rig!) A promoted class is just a more specialized skillset to be used alongside the basics (as seen by the promoted class getting all the base class skills) and are not supposed to completely replace them. So as such, there's no real reason to make base class growths suck as much as they do.
I'm torn on your LE growth bonuses becoming an increase in stats suggestion, though. Let me explain my worry. Take a 20% Will class whose passives are very much of benefit to mages, like Umbrals or Papillions, for example. As someone who's missed 3 97% growths in a row with Lady Luck, well, let's just say the RNG can go choke on a big one. Presently, 100% growth vs 95% growth (the best a 20% will growth class can presently manage with and without that LE bonus) could mean the difference between 64/64 or the difference between 64/40. While many who are already over 100% growths (such as Liches) would no doubt love this change, I think many people may prefer the simple guarantee of not missing stats versus getting bonus stats, and it could serve to create a larger power gap between races.
As for the Legend Ink suggestion... I'm all for anything to not need to regrind to 60 just to get a catalyst for an enchant >_
*loud burp*
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