[Killah-K12]

I will make a quick clarification since there seems to be a misunderstanding. Mostly on this bit:


And its file name:


Here is what I had mentioned to you, Killah-K12, when you had approached me about that post:


Personally if I wanted to cut off others from getting involved with that, I would've not made this particular thread.

I had also mentioned that if other people were interested in partaking in those events from back, they could approach us and we could sort it out. The people I had mentioned in that screenshot were not the only ones to ask and be given an opportunity, either.

Just clarifying on that since there is a misunderstanding.

I'm not saying this is what black falcons is about as a whole. I'm just saying there is people within the major groups like black falcons who if they had the oppurtunity to be in your shoes fern. They'd be totally fine with cutting off the rp plots of other players if they weren't buddy buddy with them. That's the point of the post. I'm not aganist Black falcons i'm aganist cliquey nature that players in this game have.

[Aqua]

At the very least I don’t think guards should be something accessible via discord. Someone should have to leave and physically find one in-game. Maybe this would promote guard players to do actual patrols or something. Rather than them just being an alt someone hops on after someone puts a hit on whoever is causing trouble on discord.

Here we go again... I'm going to be straight with this point, to be honest.

You do realise what you're implying here? We do patrols regardless of when people do crimes and stuff but expecting a guard to be logged in constantly or at times during the day so someone can find us, is ridiculous like you're implying, we have lives as well, we're not going to spend our time to facilitate just because someone feels like people should go and find us because of some I don't know vampire decided to start biting people, that's not saying we wouldn't handle it. The whole reason the Role exists is purely to combat this. People going to find a guard in-game works in practice but it's down to player discretion, hell not everyone has the courage to even speak the guards or even ping us for that matter. If you want the role removing then ask other people on their thoughts beforehand and consider the implications you're giving off, like the one I just stated above. Also bare in mind some of the guard force (See Timezones...Darn 3/4 AM Pings) aren't even around when stupid shit goes down, cut us some slack. We're only human too.


Personally, I feel if you have an issue with the guards make another discussion thread on it and go from there because this is now starting to seem like an attack on us rather than benefitting the thread at hand. If this is aggressive then by all means I'll admit to such and apologise but right now, going on what was quoted it was very much needed.

[Perdition]

No one is attacking anyone, lol. Just because I say a role isn’t conducive to RP doesn’t mean I suddenly hate all those playing the role. In fact I hardly even know who the guard players are specifically. I’m not saying what the players are doing is wrong, I’m saying that what the system has them do is the problem.

I don’t think this needs to be a separate thread because it’s part of an overarching issue and a lot of people have addressed concerns with being able to antagonize properly, even on the smallest scale. I have nothing against anyone who plays a guard. I honestly couldn’t care less. But I do think the way the system is set up serves as something that oppresses player villains.

I don’t know why the guard segment of that post was even so fixated on given it was only an aside to address an obvious issue with the main idea of the post which was scene locking.

[Lokus]

alright time for my hot take with as few words as possible


Inclusiveness
Okay so, one of the issues that SL2 suffers from is a lack of inclusiveness, which has already been pointed out as house RP. However, I'm not focusing on isolated RPs that diverge from public RP. Instead, I'm focusing on the idea of including as many people as possible. This has been done with the Hardcore SL2 challenge that has invited a plethora of people you normally wouldn't see, for one reason or another. This was, in no way possible, a clique meant to isolate people, but to include them. Yet hilariously enough, rather than ask if they can join, people took the Hardcore challenge as some sort of elitism without even realizing it (or even talking to the people involved) was the exact opposite of that. People who weren't even hardcore tagged were given RP, simply because of the challenge's rules and whatnot. When an IC death occurred, there was a player (who's IC and alias escapes me it's been FOREVER) who was present for the burial/internment of Ju-1 (who died via a Wings of Fire rip) and we all interacted with her.


Growth
Another thing I've seen is the complaint of wallflowers/Introvert/Extrovert and honestly, that isn't the issue. The real issue is you can't walk into an RP in progress and not contribute to the on-goings of the IC, you're only going to cause stagnation as a result. Some characters just don't mesh with one another, which is another thing people have to take into consideration if they want to engage or otherwise, cultivate RP for all parties to enjoy. People will, realistically, stick to those they know will engage them with an interesting IC that will give their character's interaction a meaningful growth that can be used to interact with others. As pointed out by Mewni, people often tend to ignore others in favor of another, which is another issue that has been already pointed out as of this post.


Bias
Whether you want to admit you want to admit this is the case or not, it's there and it's ugly. Some people, you can't even mention without a few people feeling hot under the collar to the point where they'll either mention their dislike and end it there, or just ignore you for association with said person. Some have, unfortunately but reasonably, earned their ire from a few folks due to the method of their RPs, rather than simply because of them as a person. But people change, especially yourself. Not everyone will remain the same after five to three years, as life can impact one in a myriad of ways that will have them change their views on not only life, but the games that they play. Whether for better or worse can't be determined by holding a grudge, knowing when to let go of said grudge is the first step towards inclusiveness.

[Hanzo]

HEY HEY BOIS~!

Aight, since everyone and their grandmother posted here, I will do so as well! So, my opinions on some of the things mentioned:

[+] CLIQUES:
These are a pretty normal thing, and are - I think - just a part of human nature. Are they overly dominant in the game? Perhaps, perhaps. But, I sincerely doubt that we can do much about them.

[+] MECHANICAL COMBAT:
I dislike it, and have long ago traded it for RP combat. I firmly believe that this game should be an RP game first and foremost, as that is an itch it can reasonably scratch. 

[+] EVENTS:
So, while I have been away for a bit, due to exams and other cringe stuff, I have hosted a lot of events prior to becoming an eventmin. You can not, and will not have events that are not pre-determined, because of one very simple thing. You need space, to do your events. If you do not predict what your players might do, you will be put into a situation where progress is impossible, due to there simply not being a map that you can move on to. There are a few 'solutions' to this, like halting an event when a new map is required, moving it do Discord or plain narration - but from my pretty extensive experience, that just kills the mojo. Just how the game is, I'm afraid.

[+] GM APPROVAL:
You absolutely can get any idea of yours approved, and made into canon - you just need to put in effort. I'm not saying transparency isn't a good thing, but the below speaks for itself. Before becoming an eventmin, these are only some of the things I got approved.

- Got possession of a limb of a Mercalan saint.

- Got approved a spiritual nexus of great power.

- Got approved to have what is likely the largest ritual circle in the world.

- Got approval to use a system that allows people to know where others are in the world, at all times.

- Got approval for a custom magical technique that removes emotions from a target.

- Got approval for a custom magical technique that makes any person to sign a contract willingly obey it completely.

- Got approval for a modified version of a spirit jar.

- Got approval for a custom species of fish that cures knee problems!

- Got approval to run a very overpopulated city.

- Got approval to run a fricking Assassin's Guild.

- Got approval to write out Pale Moon's history, and add him to my Guild as a former member. For those of you that don't know, that is the person who owned the Creed dagger, that you can get in the arena. This, is a canon character.

These are some I can remember off the top of my head. Apart from the last one, these were all approved by MARK, who is regarded as probably the strictest GM. Point being, getting your hands on that sweet, sweet canon is easy, if you're willing to put yourself through the trouble.

[+] VILLAINS:

https://discord.gg/snErpzJ

I will just go ahead an echo what some other people have said. Be the change, you want to see. Above, in my bout of self-promotion, is a link to The Assassin's Guild. The universe was void of anything like it, and since it is something I desired - I went ahead and made it. Nobody can complain in the slightest bit, if they haven't done anything to try and fix the problem themselves. Our game population is far too small, for you to wait for a solution.

I am constantly sliding into people's DMs, especially those of new players, and am always employing aggressive recruitment tactics. As a result - quite on the contrary - I am finding that I don't have enough time to do all the RP I have scheduled, and am constantly lagging behind on what I want to do. Be proactive, or be bored - the amount of fun you're having with the game solely depends on your stance towards seeking the same.

[Snake]

This man just used my words, without permission, out of context and from an irrelevant bickering of 2019 in a SS13 server spawned from my -personal opinion and insight- over the future of the conflict. At that time. All of that as an 'evidence' and 'fact' to say it's the community's fault, or Fern's own fault or that Blades corrup, or that there are cliques.

Boy, I'd hire you for Wall Street Journal immediately for that alone. Done me a proud.

Yes, back when things were steamy and not-so-resolute with the Black Falcon since they were, back then, trying to matter a little more beyond Cellsvich's destruction and couldn't accomodate the amount of edgelords who wanted to have a beef with them to grind their e-PPs for the sake of mooching from their storyline since SL2 has ever been a dry desert in terms of villains. Hell. That quote alone spawned from me talking to Lonestar about how their character will not have room for relevancy given the ones already on the Falcons' tails. And mind you, Fern never had anything planned in regards to then until a few days before his public post. I was there asking him about it to confirm my fears. But that's all what they were. Fears.

Maybe the reason so many cliques exist is because a lot of the community is a bunch of unsavory people for no ACTUAL REASON (like, how hard it is to be decent and kind?), and normal, average people get scared away into grouping with who they think it will not be a waste of their time investment? Or rather. Would ANYONE prefer to be with people they like, or people they're forced to hang around by courtesy? That's how ""cliques"" work in SL2. There's just an abundant lack of love for each other. FOR VERY SOLID REASONS, MIND YOU. Everyone with atleast one problem or grudge, to boot.

The only remedy I can see here is for people who are grudging at to chill out and the ones being grudged at to make an extra effort to be more likeable. Act more like a community. Let past problems stay in the past and look ahead more. Leave these grudges for old housewives who can't get over 'that bitch karen' and go slash some Jammers together.

It's only a game, why we heff to be mad? (only mad when my damn discord shit gets posted without any talk beforehand to the world, but that's not gonna be my loss here, only the funny clown who thought this was a respectable idea, I despise you so much that I'm going to form a clique around this fact now brb)

[Syeburn]

Unpopular opinion time.

Events suck. They're so lame and boring and none of us could write a better story than one that develops organically between characters and players through day to day interaction. SL2 provides little intrinsic motivation for me to have that kind of story. There is never any motivation for me to take my character or development seriously because no one is going to hold me to a standard. Vaguely-Jokey-Reference-Character is just as valid as a seriously written character because however serious and important I am ICly has absolutely no bearing on what I can and can't actually do in the videogame.

I think a lot of these roleplay problems that have been described are knock-on effects of this primordial game-design sin Dev comitted when he made SL2 closer to an MMO than a hardcore roleplay game. This isn't to say that the roleplay on SL2 sucks and is incapable of being good, but I do earnestly believe that some of the core mechanics of the game actively discourage some of the aspects of roleplay that the community is now realizing are necessary for long term story-telling. There is very little player agency. I am capable of gaining power in only the most superficial of ways.

When I introduce my friends to SL2, I always have to temper their expectations. This isn't the kind of game where you can become king, or the strongest, because all the kings and the strongest people are already written by Dev. Wherein other games in the roleplay genre, great lengths are gone through to emphasise the nearly limitless options that a player can make, SL2 is more notable for the things you CAN'T do rather than can. Sure, individual events might allow you to explore the lore or do things that might seem impactful, but very rarely if ever will these events permanently alter the course of the game, or provide some kind of impact outside of the event. Any role or rank I acquire in SL2 is entirely superficial. I cannot acquire legendary artifacts, I cannot become the strongest hero in the world just by exploring it. The game itself does not foster these ideas and adventures, and the onus becomes on the players themselves to try and make this happen through events, rather than them being game systems that players can actually interact with.

Villanry, something that is usually self-motivated by characters wanting power, money, fame or wealth is only possible in SL2 if the PLAYER is the one motivated towards evil. There is never a reason to attack or rob a player for resources that could much more easily be obtained by interacting with the MMO side of the game than the RP side of the game. I can never assassinate the king of anything, so why bother becoming the worlds greatest assassin aside from fulfilling the wishes of other players who's characters are without conflict?

It really feels like SL2's intention, as a game, isn't to let you do whatever you want and make YOUR story but rather to participate as a small piece of a pre-existing world/story. I do not think Dev is willing to make the broad, sweeping and core-altering changes necessary to shatter the illusion and bring actual consequence to roleplay on SL2. Doing so would shatter the very ideallic and peaceful 'anime slice-of-life with occasional drama' feel that is so unique to the game and is the only reason why I can imagine the game has stayed successful in this state for so long. It's certainly the only draw I feel to the RP.

[GameMaster85]

I'm going to have to take a breath for this one. I personally have to go back way through my time in SL2 which has had it's major ups and downs. I don't want to exactly give an opinion on the current state of things proper, but rather share my experience as a separate player until I do.

---

Back when SL2 and it's release states started, I was extremely excited. A new world, new systems, new ways to play. There were so many complicated things that happened both in the game and in the roleplay, though I always felt like I had a leg down from everyone. My "ideal" character is a male human adventurer, with a story of potential strength to be able to rise up to the level of the people he looked up to. This is the character I want to play, and I even keep to this theme sometimes way back. However, Pre GR this was kinda impossible without LEing a bajillion times, and I wasn't willing to play the game as much as others. I also saw so much roleplay with these other stronger characters whom seem so surrounded by everyone, while I was mostly left more in the dust then they were in terms of how much roleplay I got. However, I didn't have an excuse, as back then I wasn't as social nor adept at this.

Admittedly, I'm horrible being in communities. Not many people enjoy what I do because I tend to rant and complain a lot about perceived issues. In the end, I try to make friends with everyone even if I fail to do it, but in SL2 it just felt like there's so much... vitriol when it comes to it. Too many times have I've seen the bickering between parties, putting others down due to their roleplays or the characters they play. Still. I don't think I've ever been a good person, nor am I now. I try my best in general at being the best I can be, but even now I'm never sure if I'm even liked in SL2 or not because all the close friends I made here either only play SL2 and nothing else (which means I don't talk with them and we distanced ever since) or don't play SL2 at all.

At one point, I tried involving my character in an event. I won't mention who or what, but I specifically told who I was in contact with that involved me in said event to "let me know if things start to happen" so I can be on when possible. In the end, 3 things happened and I wasn't told about it, eventually figuring out that said people simply don't feel comfortable "roleplaying with people they don't have experience roleplaying with."

At this point in my life, I was dealing with a lot of things. SL2 has affected me mentally, because at one point I was so addicted to playing the game yet not roleplaying as much as I wanted to. I never truly involved myself in the community because I was so afraid of it. I had huge paranoia issues with the community and sometimes for good measure. At one point, a specific event happened between me and another player, and I let my anger get so out of control, the whiplash of it all sent my mind into a frenzy, and I almost had to go to the hospital. Eventually I quit, and came back, and this sort of looped back and forth so much that I even considered asking the GMs to ban me for the sake of my health.

Finally however, I prioritized my life, and I got things a lot more squared away. I think I'm still the dumb guy who keeps complaining sometimes, but I genuinely enjoy the friends I made here in SL2. I genuinely am always happy to roleplay with anyone and even say "Thank you for the RP!" even if I get to roleplay a little bit, because I don't get to roleplay often in SL2. My health and real life situations are a lot better then they have been better, and while I'm still very down, I'm getting treatment for the many issues I have now.

Still, all the above is what I've experienced and expresses most of what I felt back then.

---

As for the "what" and "why" on the current state of roleplay, it's not something I can truly chime in on as I'm not part of the community as much as others, but sometime I realized is that the community doesn't really act like a community of sort, but a community of communities. While cliques are a natural cause and effect of such, it feels like we're not out of that sort of space where we prioritize our clique over the SL2 community at large.

However, over time I've also seen good come out of the community more recently. Guilds have been more open to recruiting others and involve them. Public events are organized in a way that makes it enjoyable for as many people as possible, and housing is used to generate public bars and spaces for all manner of characters to involve themselves in more often then not.

I think my issue right now, why I don't get enough roleplay, is because I sometimes end up in a roleplay where it might not be as desirable, maybe my character doesn't get enough attention, or I simply don't try hard enough. I don't involve myself in the community as healthily as I can, but I mostly have IRL to blame for my lack of time to be on. But I also don't take advantage of things like public forums and the discord's event section, very important things to take note of if you want to be involved in public affairs.

I don't think the issue of a lack of community is an issue the "game" can solve, but more from the community itself. Roleplaying is a collaborative effort that can only grow with the efforts between all players apart of the community. Not only should we naturally be encouraging roleplay between all players, but we should be accepting of all players both old and new to be able to roleplay with us, even if you are unsure of the quality of roleplay they can provide. If they need help with their roleplay, then that is when you should speak up to them. While being fully accepting isn't possible, we need to at least have a low bar of acceptance that allows people to cleanly enter any sort of public roleplay and join whatever open group they desire and have fun with whomever they want while not feeling alienated in the process. ( Exceptions do apply for some guilds of course, such as Villanous Lowe Gang who only accepts epic PvPers and dastardly characters and other such niches. )

[lalchi]

I have been reading some post of this thread
and it just ended me to be

" :o Am I BLIND ?"

I've been in the game for a month now. So that may have to do with the fact i'm not that experienced with the game.
Some may know me as "The curious tail" 

And sure, i've been a lot around stella's trading which is open to the public.
But even so i had good RP experience even with people outside of the stella's trading. I've been around squares sometimes, met folks inside black doors and had exchange with others while visitng random player houses.

Sure it does feel empty sometimes and i had days and hours without any RP on the game. 
But i didn't expect to see cities crowded or having to roleplay with people for a full day when there's 20 to 50 players on the server.
(Some has life, have something else in their interest or building their character profile in OOC) 
But as I said, i've been into RP talks with a lot of players now and I enjoyed it very much.
Enjoyed so much that i actually put a lot of work into my character.

I've never felt rejected by a clique or despised because i dare to walk up on them. 

So am kind of..... Eh.

[GameMaster85]

Like I said, I always felt that SL2 has become a lot more welcoming over the past year. The only thing I can think of in this case is grudges splitting the community up which you might not see that publicly. As said, I felt a lot of vitrol in general in the past between players, and it was mostly in the context of "i heard from a guy who heard from a guy" sort of thing. Or simply someone talking distaste.

I think even with my little time spent roleplay, I still got good roleplay, so anyone who actually spends hours will get a lot of it. And even I've seen your character around and roleplayed with them, even if it was brief. Remember the skeleton lich who waltz in the room randomly? Wait that doesn't sound right.

I think the biggest factor affecting the stagnation of roleplay in general is just how long SL2 has been around. We haven't had much content updates and outside of classes and overhauls, we haven't seen the world evolve, which leads to the players doing their own thing. Maybe eventually we can get bored of that? Remember, in the end, SL2 might be a mandatory roleplaying game, but it's still a game, and we're still here to have fun. Said fun can always get stale over time.

Still, I think the issue of the community side of things is still true. It's a mindset that might be a deep thing, but either way we should all simply be good to each other.