[Rendar]

I mean. It could be changed so that

If Weapon Range = 1 (or acts like a melee attack) then STR gives +0.5 CRIT

If Weapon Range >1 (or acts like a ranged attack) then SKI gives +0.5 CRIT.

Hard to game it that way, but I understand the issue.

STR, as a whole, just needs to be made better instead of dragging other stats into the dirt to make it better by comparison.

[Lolzytripd]

The offensive stats do need to to have a small edge on the defensive ones just because they're less of a safe investment. I do think skill might be a little too beneficial, though. Part of me is considering moving the bonus critical from skill and putting it on Strength.

I see the options being

A) change the crit evade on luck to .5

B) rework crit so there is a higher base crit chance to account for how easy it is to mitigate crit chance.


Strength isn't really the answer.

If anything I'd like to see Strength gaining .5% crit damage.

[Snake]

That is why I said I agree with crits being moved to STR. Guns and Daggers are doomed forever if we're working with this system where certain weapons can't just blow through DEF or whatever. And of course, they don't do as nearly enough damage to be on pair with autohits and swift autohits that benefit better from GUI than a basic hit itself. *shrug*

Even before this idea, all it took to stop someone from critting was some FAI and BK. But if we're moving anything, and STR really seems to be the one stat people will want due to autohit meta, then I'd suggest if it really needs to be moved, to move it from SKI to LUC all together (Beep Boop, oh boy, stupid idea: LUC = 2.5 Critical per 1 point), it does make little sense but some 'nerfed' classes would thank.

What I don't understand is why we need to nerf SKI again? It has a lot tied to it, sure, but all the weapons that actually use it kind of lost their value, most of them use basic hits and hit checks for 100% SWA instead of a nifty modifier.

[Autumn]

A) change the crit evade on luck to .5

B) rework crit so there is a higher base crit chance to account for how easy it is to mitigate crit chance.

Fight anyone with just LUC and you'll figure out their crit evade isn't enough to dodge a duelist's critical, and if they invest into boneheart/faith/Negation, they have just as every right to avoid criticals because thats what they built to evade.

anyone dedicated to enough crit can usually punch through some of these setups too, and if they're hardcore built for crit evade, its obvious they don't want you to critically hit them in the first place, critical and critical evade are well more than fine.

Strength really should of just been solidified as the weapon scaling stat for melee weapons, but since the weapon power bug fix, basic attacks are lacking, I could see STR contributing to critical damage, as lolzy brought up, maybe.

[Raigen.Convict]

I'm for strength adding to the crit damage formula since, quite simply, hitting something harder also means hitting their crit spots just that much harder too. Also gives a REASON to do a basic attack centric build with strength as a stat.

[Sawrock]

Making Strength do crit damage for melee weapons (along with Guile, but Strength would've give as much as Guile would) sounds like an excellent idea. Ranged weapons could use Skill to do the same thing.

EDIT: Let me note, as I've played many crit builds, and happen to be recently playing a crit-evasion build, that critical and anti-critical are currently in a good spot. I've had people I can easily crit, I've had people who are harder to crit and require more set up to handle (Absolute Death, Attrait, Dark Water, etc). It's a good mixture.

[Neus]

The offensive stats do need to to have a small edge on the defensive ones just because they're less of a safe investment. I do think skill might be a little too beneficial, though. Part of me is considering moving the bonus critical from skill and putting it on Strength.

My immediate reaction is that moving crit from Ski to Strength would just encourage people even less to build crit. Why build a stat that only helps hit people and grants skill slots, when you can do more damage with a Swift variant of an autohit that can now crit with your 70 Strength? That operates under the assumption that we aren't dealing with a post-autohit-change version of the game, at least.

Nobody will pick up guns or daggers, besides stuff like Stinger and Tarnell. Those people will probably abandon that idea quickly, once they realize having to build Str, Guile, Luck and Ski as primary stats leaves them without any room for defense.

Yeah, I still intend to do autohit accuracy but I'm working out the details currently, since it's actually a little complicated. If I made this change it would probably be in a post-that world.

Making Strength do crit damage for melee weapons (along with Guile, but Strength would've give as much as Guile would) sounds like an excellent idea. Ranged weapons could use Skill to do the same thing.

EDIT: Let me note, as I've played many crit builds, and happen to be recently playing a crit-evasion build, that critical and anti-critical are currently in a good spot. I've had people I can easily crit, I've had people who are harder to crit and require more set up to handle (Absolute Death, Attrait, Dark Water, etc). It's a good mixture.

I meant critical chance, not damage. I also thought about making it depend on the weapon type but;
A) Not every weapon in a melee category scales with STR.
B) It's probably not fair for guns/etc to get to triple dip on damage/critical/hit from one stat if the other weapon classes can't double dip.

---

Overall I do agree that it can be possible to get a huge Hit/Crit chance, perhaps a little too easily in some cases.

[Lolzytripd]

A) change the crit evade on luck to .5

B) rework crit so there is a higher base crit chance to account for how easy it is to mitigate crit chance.

Fight anyone with just LUC and you'll figure out their crit evade isn't enough to dodge a duelist's critical, and if they invest into boneheart/faith/Negation, they have just as every right to avoid criticals because thats what they built to evade.

anyone dedicated to enough crit can usually punch through some of these setups too, and if they're hardcore built for crit evade, its obvious they don't want you to critically hit them in the first place, critical and critical evade are well more than fine.

Strength really should of just been solidified as the weapon scaling stat for melee weapons, but since the weapon power bug fix, basic attacks are lacking, I could see STR contributing to critical damage, as lolzy brought up, maybe.

The problem is that Crit evade is easier to build than crit, and Crit evade just needs to be higher than crit for your crit chance to be 0.

you can build crit evade and at the same time be defensive as a fortress, while the build that has gone into crit had to invest so far into crit to be successful against those not building crit evade at all.

you can get a free +50% crit evade just from a enchantment and a class. Crit evade gives 1:1 scaling on both its stats, crit does not.

Crit builds need to build into the basic attack tax bracket, Crit evade tanks do not, they get faith, they get to be a super tanky summoner, and Have minions that spam the hardest hitting autohits in the game.

the point is there should always be a possibility of a crit, its atrocious that I can have 150% crit in pve (which is dumb in its own right) but have it brought down to negatives in pvp.

[Rendar]

Crit evade is given from FAI & LUC.

FAI can be nullified entirely by black water, which if you just go ST as a crit character, you will have.

LUC is not, usually, something an auto-hitter will build unless they are going for a crit build (and lets face it. If they're already there, you'll git fukt anyways).

The reason Crit =/= Crit Evade in the 1:1 ratio is because weapons can/will have a ridiculous amount of crit. I've seen some reach 50% crit.

Throw in Kensei, which is -15 Crit Evade (and Poise for even more crit) and you've got a ridiculously capable crit build. The issue isn't crit vs crit evade, it's the fact that Duelist is almost a must if you want a crit/basic attack build because of all the bullshit it offers you, passively, compared to every other class in the game.

[Fern]

I do not really see much good in SKI's critical bonus being moved to STR, due to the points previously brought up by Kameron and Spoops. However I can see STR gaining critical damage in some way instead.

I believe that critical rates and critical evade are fine, here, but that hit is a little too overbearing at times. Though in most cases I've seen it act that way, it turns out that the Staff of Eyes + Armor of Eyes combo is the one at fault - sometimes, having just the armor will do it.