[Suspicious]

Certain weapons, such as Battlepick axes and Knightslayer bows, pierce defense. Now, as they are now, they pierce 5 DEF worth of defense. As Defense values are typically very high (in excess of 15), this usually just translates to +5 damage. This is exacerbated even further by the recent increase to armor defense across the board with the new upgrades.

I'd like to change that, since it seems too static and seems to defeat the point of a defense piercing weapon, i.e. to pierce defense. Assuming an average DEF of 30 at level 45 (which I'm just pulling out of my ass) and the target in question wearing fully upgraded Light Armor, they'd have roughly 39-40 DEF, maybe 42 with racials and such (we assume elemental armor, such as rockdirt or carapace). -5 from this would be approximately 12%. . Thus, I'd say a defense-piercing weapon, to really be considered defense-piercing, should reduce 15-20% of DEF.

For fighting people and monsters who don't build a lot of DEF, the benefit is not significant, but when fighting those that do, there can be a significant improvement in damage. The weapons themselves are below average in stats (lower Power, etc) so to make up for that by giving them a significant advantage over armored opponents would create a useful niche for these types of items.

[Bjarn]

I agree.

Also, reward people for hitting large defense people by creating it as a stacking effect up to a certain point, so at first 5%, then 10%, then 15%, maybe maxing out at 20%.

[Sawrock]

Maybe make it ignore all equipment defense, but not player defense?

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Sawrock » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:02 pm[/url]"]Maybe make it ignore all equipment defense, but not player defense?

That's not a bad idea, this seems to work.

[Suspicious]

I disagree with that; I think it punishes people for building DEF. It would be significantly better than it is now, since equipment def usually makes up about 30-70% of someone's total DEF (6-8 if Unarmored, 13-15 Light, 18-20 Heavy without enchants), and has no apparent hard counter to it. I'd say it would be okay if piercing weapons had significantly lower stats than average, but they don't. This is exacerbated by the existence of the Rebellion enchantment, which would make it piss easy to kill people who stack DEF solely by virtue of being able to ignore their work with a simple counter (most people with high DEF cannot dodge). A piercing weapon should reward someone for thinking correctly and discourage extreme equipment stacking, not punish people for having good gear.

[Rendar]

You.. do know the Def Piercing weapons only penetrate ARMOR defense right..? I know for a fact that me losing all of my armor from my... 4 armor shirt isnt gonna do much. Taking 15 points of armor off of a BodyGuard won't really do that much either, considering they can get 22 max defense so...

[Suspicious]

It ruins the effectiveness of the Body Guard. No one goes 'I just lost 15 def, oh well, just a slap on the wrist'.

[Rendar]

The 'effectiveness' of bodyguard isn't its defense. It's its EFFECT. Besides, BG needs to get nerfed/rekt.

[Mivereous]

No effect if wearing no armor.

-75% armor defense if wearing Unarmored type.

-50% armor defense if wearing Light Armor type.

-25% armor defense if wearing Heavy Armor type.

How does that sound?

EDIT: Or 90/60/30, after I did some math.

[Suspicious]

Mivereous » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:04 pm[/url]"]No effect if wearing no armor.

-75% armor defense if wearing Unarmored type.

-50% armor defense if wearing Light Armor type.

-25% armor defense if wearing Heavy Armor type.

How does that sound?

EDIT: Or 90/60/30, after I did some math.

That would make it roughly the same as it is now, maybe 1-3 points of DEF better, even with the edit. I understand that Piercing weapons are made supposedly to pierce armor, but they shouldn't affect only armor... unless...

How about 'You deal bonus % damage equal to the opponent's armor DEF'. 20% bonus damage is quite significant, and will help breach the DEF an opponent stacking armor DEF has, whereas it falls off against lightly armored opponents (4-10%) because of the weapon's lower-end stats. This also doesn't make BKs useless as they are, because they reduce physical damage all across the board, so despite taking 120% physical damage, it's still reduced by 12% (36% with Black Wind) if they wear heavy armor.