11-30-2018, 01:29 AM
I'd first like to clarify a few things before I attempt to talk about SL2s design. Firstly, I've been playing SL2 for a few years now (didn't join the forum until about a year ago), and I've just lurked here to read the proverbial room of this forum. Second, I mean no offense to anyone that reads this post, especially to any mods, GMs, developers with anything I say because some of this stuff is going to come off as harsh. I'm sure the dev(s) work very hard trying to make this game the best it can be and I hope that, if they read this, they take this as a wholehearted plea for change rather than the cynical bashing it's going to come off as. Lastly, before I start going into my main topic, know that this argument is made based off of a forum post titled The biggest problem with SL2 in which the following sentiment was echoed throughout the thread:
Which brings me to the main topic of SL2's design, specifically it's combat design, and I'd like to start out with a question. Is SL2's combat even supposed to be connected to its RP? Now, this might seem like a really stupid question but think about it. So much of the combat design directly opposes this notion. I'm going to focus on combat designs that conflict with the RP setting in this post and how it could improve. For the purpose of appealing to both crowds, because I, in particular, am more interested in the RPG combat mechanics than RP, I will be tackling this from both an RP perspective and a mechanical perspective.
Scroll to the bottom for TL;DR
Right off the bat, let's be honest guys: BDPs aren't hard. You can walk into any level 70 dungeon and have just as easy a time as if you walked into a level 60 one, I would wager that this isn't a controversial opinion to have. People just run Summoner or get a few mercenaries and do the dirty work themselves. Why is this a problem though? Let people enjoy the game the way they want to, right?
Well, from an RP perspective, this causes antisocial behavior. What's the point of going in with other people, who have to waste your time taking their turn when you can just do it all yourself, it's easy alone anyway. Now, I'm not preaching against mercenaries and summoners, my only contention here is that, because the content is not hard, there is no reason to interact with anybody else doing the content. What's the solution? Make the content more difficult. I know Grindylows are not the best-designed mob in this game, but for one thing, I appreciate them if only for the reason that it makes any fight with them incredibly harder as a result and creates the need for a player-character, maybe a support in specific or a mage who can deal an abundance of damage to it from far away or someone who can disable it for a turn or two. Make enemies create dire situations that players can RP around if they want to. Maybe a mob that has high mobility, moderate damage, and always goes after the player with the lowest maximum HP. Maybe a mob that literally eats another player and that players consistently takes %HP damage each turn until that mob is killed. Maybe just make mobs do more damage and have more devastating effects in general, including actual injuries that players can RP.
From a mechanical combat perspective, this is boring. This lack of difficulty has, for me and a lot of randoms I talk to loocLY made the combat horribly unappealing because there is no challenge to it. Trying to do a core boss has no actual weight to it because there is no actual challenge. In RPGs, there's generally a need for support classes/healers but builds like tactician and curate and, heck, even tank builds are made obsolete because there's no actual difficulty that you need to build around. Again, I hate to do this, but you know the situation is bad when Grindylows are the most exciting that fighting in this game has been for a long time because at least then, the fight becomes about something more interesting than hit, hit, pass, hit, hit, pass, sidecut, attack, end turn. Again, solving this problem only takes giving enemies more unique abilities/more power to their already existing abilities. Give regular mobs more damage and more defense at higher levels, make their abilities afflict more lethal/impactful debuffs, bosses at level 60 should not have anywhere near
Quote:5: Dungeon RP is always a bit weird
I feel like when you group and do content, the RP is always a bit rushed and extremely secondary. You might say a few words when you do a cool attack, or your characters might have a small conversation during battle. Either way, it feels a bit awkward, like RP and gameplay are disconnected. A very minor concern, but I wanted to bring this up.
This means that the core gameplay of the game isn't really good at stimulating rp, which it should be in a game with high rp focus.
Which brings me to the main topic of SL2's design, specifically it's combat design, and I'd like to start out with a question. Is SL2's combat even supposed to be connected to its RP? Now, this might seem like a really stupid question but think about it. So much of the combat design directly opposes this notion. I'm going to focus on combat designs that conflict with the RP setting in this post and how it could improve. For the purpose of appealing to both crowds, because I, in particular, am more interested in the RPG combat mechanics than RP, I will be tackling this from both an RP perspective and a mechanical perspective.
Scroll to the bottom for TL;DR
Right off the bat, let's be honest guys: BDPs aren't hard. You can walk into any level 70 dungeon and have just as easy a time as if you walked into a level 60 one, I would wager that this isn't a controversial opinion to have. People just run Summoner or get a few mercenaries and do the dirty work themselves. Why is this a problem though? Let people enjoy the game the way they want to, right?
Well, from an RP perspective, this causes antisocial behavior. What's the point of going in with other people, who have to waste your time taking their turn when you can just do it all yourself, it's easy alone anyway. Now, I'm not preaching against mercenaries and summoners, my only contention here is that, because the content is not hard, there is no reason to interact with anybody else doing the content. What's the solution? Make the content more difficult. I know Grindylows are not the best-designed mob in this game, but for one thing, I appreciate them if only for the reason that it makes any fight with them incredibly harder as a result and creates the need for a player-character, maybe a support in specific or a mage who can deal an abundance of damage to it from far away or someone who can disable it for a turn or two. Make enemies create dire situations that players can RP around if they want to. Maybe a mob that has high mobility, moderate damage, and always goes after the player with the lowest maximum HP. Maybe a mob that literally eats another player and that players consistently takes %HP damage each turn until that mob is killed. Maybe just make mobs do more damage and have more devastating effects in general, including actual injuries that players can RP.
From a mechanical combat perspective, this is boring. This lack of difficulty has, for me and a lot of randoms I talk to loocLY made the combat horribly unappealing because there is no challenge to it. Trying to do a core boss has no actual weight to it because there is no actual challenge. In RPGs, there's generally a need for support classes/healers but builds like tactician and curate and, heck, even tank builds are made obsolete because there's no actual difficulty that you need to build around. Again, I hate to do this, but you know the situation is bad when Grindylows are the most exciting that fighting in this game has been for a long time because at least then, the fight becomes about something more interesting than hit, hit, pass, hit, hit, pass, sidecut, attack, end turn. Again, solving this problem only takes giving enemies more unique abilities/more power to their already existing abilities. Give regular mobs more damage and more defense at higher levels, make their abilities afflict more lethal/impactful debuffs, bosses at level 60 should not have anywhere near
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