• Ice step - 70% ice attack, hits up to 5 times. That's 42 x 5 = 210. Add 25% for crits = 262. Add another 30% for max tempo = 340.
  
• Thunder step - 200% lightning attack, hits up to 2 times. That's 120 x 2 = 240. Add 25% for crits = 300. Add another 30% for max tempo = 390.
  
• Idol step. Let's see how that nerf measured up, and assume that it's all on one target so every hit beyond the first does half damage. 150% light attack, hits 5 times. 4 Half damage hits essentially makes it the same damage as hitting 3 times total. That's 90 x 3 = 270. Add 25% for crits = 337. Add another 30% for max tempo = 438. And this one does a big heal too!
  

• A passive +6 stat buff in their base class, the only one of its kind.
  
• A solid heal in their base class that's baseline is 125 and higher with song buffs, no scaling stat required. Aid eat your heart out.
  
• 10% sound resistance and 15% silence inflict resistance, for 1 skill point each.
  
• a 10% fp reduction to the cost of their base class skills, taking the edge off of one of their biggest weaknesses in rising fp costs as they gain tempo.
  

• Massive damage across the board and movement options while they dish out said massive damage, as stated in the previous section.
  
• 2 more heals, each scaling up past 150. One is a dance with massive damage alongside, the other offering an equally substantial fp heal. Though they are more situational and don't rival them in healing numbers, Dancer has more skills that provide substantial instant heals than priest at this point.
  
• 2 negative status cures. 1 for immobilizing effects, the other for up to 3 of any other kind. Though both carry hefty cooldowns, There are fairly irrelevant with the breakneck speed of dancer's fights thanks to its damage. Hopefully this will be fine if that's fixed.
  
• an 80-85% chance to dodge all skill projectiles with no off switch or counter play of any kind, as long as they're an evade dancer.
  
• A 25% and 30% damage multiplier, the first only requiring some crit building and the second stacking passively as they attack. The only downside is high fp costs along with the rest of the class, which are largely mitigated by dancer not having to build weapon scaling and often dumping will and/or faith/san to their heart's content.
  
• The ability to inflict a variety of status effects with signature step, often at very high likelihoods. Multiple infliction checks at lower but passable chances due to dance skills' multihits and dancer's often will dumped base infliction rates make them essentially guaranteed against those without high status res.
  
• A free +15 evade for the next attack every time they dance.
  
• The ability to ignore momentum loss from hitting elemental resist, absorb and immunity.
  

• Immobilize and similar effects. This isn't as much of a glaring issue as it used to be, now that one of them counts as a movement skill and can't be used to cure immobilizing effects. However, the one that does also tacks on a 3 round immunity. In combination with dancer's current damage ending fights at breakneck speed, that's enough to make them essentially immune to immobilizing effects. I would hope that this one won't really be an issue if that's gotten under control.
  
• High fp costs. As mentioned above, this legitimate weakness can be focused down to the point of not mattering due to dancer's not needing to concern themselves with weapon scaling. They're encouraged to dump will for widespread elemental attack bonuses anyway, and often have points left for faith and san besides. Rest beat, some fp regen stacking or support from a second class makes this weakness a non issue in many cases.
  
• lack of hit buffs/evade debuffs. The only thing in the entire game that Dancer actually doesn't have an answer to. It's gr2, them and a third of the other classes in the game. Welcome to the club. I'd like to note that this unanswered weakness is the usual point of defense for the asinine damage numbers that dancer throws around, but lackluster hit chances hardly excuse doing double the damage of every other build without even trying. This should be addressed nonetheless, as it should for every other class with little to no hit buffs/evade debuffs of some variety.
  

(09-05-2022, 05:48 PM)Trexmaster Wrote: Dancer is feast or famine similar to how old Quickdraw setups used to be.

It gets extremely high damage with the caveat of being susceptible to several easily accessible hard counters. It's worth emphasizing that these disable Dancer almost entirely as a class.

Frozen completely shuts down a Dancer's entire kit with no counter play since Rest Beat got nerfed to be a movement skill and thus locked out with the rest of their kit. While Dance Hour can keep them safe from Immobilize/Clumsy for 3 rounds, its lengthy cooldown means if the fight goes beyond that they're helpless if they're inflicted afterwards. Grapple is similar to Frozen but offers the Dancer the ability to use a movement spell or some kind of knockback if their opponent is susceptible to it to free themselves--but unless they use a weapon with a knockback effect escaping a Grapple status will cost them all their Tempo.

Not to mention locking other players out of movement is generally powerful in and of itself, against Dancer it has the added bonus of effectively removing their class.

Dancer gibbing people as fast as old Quickdraws could is absolutely a problem, but so is how easily they can be Frozen + Clumsy/Immobilize spammed into being unplayable. Their lack of access to +hit is also an issue but that's more of a widespread problem with many classes, though Dancer doesn't have anything that ignores Evasion so they're SoL if their opponent already has or can attain an Evade number of 220-230~ or higher.

Nudging down the scalings for Thunder Steps and Ice Slide would be the easiest fixes for the damage Dancer can do, Idol Step is a weird case since it has a long cooldown and is only getting all that damage on one person reliably if there's only one person to hit. A compromise I could see for Idol Dance would be to actually increase its base scaling by 25% Light ATK but increase the same-hit penalty to 75% so hitting multiple targets is more valuable whilst wailing on one person does significantly less.

As for Dancer's Immobilize/Clumsy vulnerability, Dance Hour could afford to have its cooldown reduced by the amount of Tempo burned when its cast, as it isn't a Dance skill so it will remove all Tempo regardless at the moment. This means at max (6) Tempo, Dance Hour would go from 10 rounds cooldown to 4. If the status is applied before the Dancer can hit max Tempo the downtime will be higher as a result, so I don't think it'd be unfair.

tl;dr

Dancer does egregious damage with Ice Slide/Thunder Steps/Idol Step still but doesn't have much else going for it, being easily walled out of their class if prepared for.

(09-05-2022, 06:53 PM)Kameron8 Wrote:

(09-05-2022, 05:48 PM)Trexmaster Wrote: snip

I second all of this.