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+--- Thread: Legend Extension (/showthread.php?tid=9289)
Legend Extension - Rendar - 07-27-2022
The Legend Book, the eternal grind that comes with wanting to make your character 'better'. How even just one point in a stat could make-or-break a fight. A person who doesn't bother with it being an eternal 6-7 points behind someone else who has (or more if the one without requires more stats). Defense and Res, even when a dodge build, helps-- same for Vitality, Faith, and Sanctity.
Not only this, but even people that don't want their character to do pve / pvp are given the shaft. They have to legend extend, at least once, to max out crafting to the level that allows them to actually make all the recipes of a profession. "Sorry sir, I've trained my entire life studying alchemy.. but I cannot swap out the materials of your gear for the flesh of another creature. Why? Because I haven't committed mass genocide."
It sounds stupid, and that's because it is. If you have to play a character that is constantly in RP (See: Villain characters, or just.. high ranking officials).. Legend Extending-- and being caught out-- is basically a death sentence.
Problem: Legend Extending is not simply a "fun bonus" but a necessity. Crafters, people wanting to get stats, et cetera.
- We acknowledge the Legend Extension system is not a good mechanic.
- Shifting the ASPECT Category from +1 potential to every stat (except Aptitude) to a global rework of racial stats, giving a +1 to all racial stats across the board. This has the exact same effect, but saves 6 Legend Extensions in total.
- The PROFESSION Category can remain in the book, however instead of giving an extra level, it reduces taxes for the specific category, or allows the person to make items at an enhanced rate (or with a smaller phys/mental stamina cost) (NOTE: For this change to work properly, crafting will need to give two more levels. An additional CRAFTING level at 30, and 60, seems fitting.)
- The FATED Category is kind of silly, I would suggest moving this-- specifically-- to TRAITS.
- The TRANSFORMATION category doesn't exist on Korvara, but it is something that I would like to see expanded upon in another topic.
- The CREATIVITY category is just... Why is this here. Why do I have to grind to level 60 for this. Why. Remove this and just make it a base feature.
- The DESTINY category is a concept that is wild in nature. I absolutely adore it, but for reasons that should be fairly obvious. Deciding to go from a Destiny class, or into a Destiny class makes life very difficult and grindy. I would instead like to see an NPC on the map that, for a Murai fee, allows you to enter into a Destiny. It follows the same rules as normal destiny / undestinying.. wherein you have to grind to level the class back up to 50.. but that's it. It's a wonderful concept that, frankly, I wish was more open outside of "Guess I have to grind back up to level 60 to try and see if I like this concept."
- And finally.. KNOWLEDGE category. Have Deja Vu be applied anytime someone Legend Extends. You could have this drop the person back down to level 1 with a 50% bonus or something, or drop them to level 45 so that they can do just the last 15 levels over. Elic Re can be applied baseline. Just throw an extra Talent point every 10 levels (20/30/40/50/60). Norm No can give an extra trait point every 20 levels (20/40/60).
This is by no means a certified good idea.. but grinding is awful most of the time, and this gets rid of at least.. 30 hours of #TheGrind for every character (barring Gear grind).
RE: Legend Extension - Shujin - 07-27-2022
I do not think those few stat points "Make or break a fight" in the slightest. A better build will always beat a worse one. Equipment and Class composition will always beat raw stats, especially in the diminishing return area.
Do those extra stats help? Sure do, but I have beaten people with maxed-out books on a not even finished first LE and only 75% of my ideal load out. Its just a little extra edge.
In short I think its a bit over-dramatized just how useful it truly is. Even if you max out all stats effectively only a handful of them are truly useful to your build.
That said, I also do not think its necessarily a good mechanic from a Roleplay standpoint though for other reasoning as stated above.
Its kinda awkward being in constant danger while droppig from a certified badass level 60 to level 1 and have people deal with it. Its abit of an RP stopper.
I also agree with the inks for crafts being more of a Bonus rather than needed to do max crafts, as Autumn has stated in another thread. Things should remain small extras rather than a must have. So in that area I certainly agree. just make the normal achieveable level 6 and the ink is just a bonus to give you a better chance for a super success or whatever.
But there is also the part of me that kinda wants to see a LONG TERM RP that can easily go over many years, not be 'finished' in a week regarding your character's mechanical development.
so SOME system for expanding powers, alas mayhaps more engaging and less about dropping to level 1 Every time, I would very much welcome.
I hate the little progression we have in SL2 as it stands, its sad that games like those Dragonball games have deeper systems to make characters grow.
RE: Legend Extension - FaeLenx - 07-27-2022
(07-27-2022, 04:19 PM)Shujin Wrote: I do not think those few stat points "Make or break a fight" in the slightest. A better build will always beat a worse one. Equipment and Class composition will always beat raw stats, especially in the diminishing return area.
A better build with better stats will usually beat a better build without better stats. Stats are a part of that 'better build' comment. You wouldn't leave 7 points uninvested in your stat screen and call your build a good one.
RE: Legend Extension - Snake - 07-27-2022
The only things bad with Legend Extension in my opinion are:
- How it only gives a very minor edge even with a full book. If only LE gave like... I don't know. +3 to the softcap instead of +1, it'd be interesting if not a little more mandatory.
- How it's mandatory for Crafter characters, who often don't even wanna bother being adventurers IC, to be forced into taking the adventurer's route. It just doesn't make IC sense for joe mc lumberjack to be clapping the Feathered Serpent or be in the middle of the Wastes for weeks come because he can't put a glowy stone on the shaft of a wood.
RE: Legend Extension - Fern - 07-27-2022
Just want to quickly say that I think the main thing I don't like about Legend Extension is that it's mandatory for non-combatant crafter characters. I agree in that it's very strange, but I also feel that having to beat up monsters and increase your character level to grind Crafting in general is very strange, specially if you want to play a non-combatant, but that's somewhat off-topic, so I won't go too deep into that...
At the very least I think maxing your Craft shouldn't require LEing, because I don't personally feel like you should be a master swordsman to be a skilled enchanter!
RE: Legend Extension - Joseph Jostar - 07-27-2022
the aspect matter is a bit more significant than it appears because this is a boost to your BASE stat and as a result can occasionally save an additional point if you're going over softcap without fully committing.
RE: Legend Extension - Slydria - 07-27-2022
I think the aspects are minor and can be safely disregarded, thankfully.
I will agree that I don't think crafters should require the LE for Level 6 Crafts. Before, it was fine, as you weren't locked out of any recipes but since the rework, they now can be. I think the easiest way to patch this up would be to transition the Crafting LE bonuses into Traits instead and the LE bonuses can provide some other merit to crafters.
While you could suggest they just be another level but that's another 600 experience you're slapping onto the crafting grind and I don't think people would go for that and people already say there aren't enough Traits so this seems like an easy compromise.
Fated, eh, sure? It doesn't really bother me if it stays or gets shifted.
Again, I just shrug for Creativity. It doesn't personally affect my enjoyment of the game and I wouldn't grind inks to make use of it.
I'm personally fine with Destiny being the way it is. If it weren't something you could pick from the very start, I'd agree more but since the idea of it is it's a more committal option, I think removing the cost entirely could easily make it feel less special.
I'm mostly fine with Knowledge as it is, though, Deja Vu is basically a mandatory pick up for anyone planning to LE more than once and it would be nice if it were on the house but that's really as far as I'd personally go for it.
Ultimately though, I don't think LEing is really as big of a deal as it's been made out to be. Apart from crafters who yeah, they do have to LE to get their best crafts, it's really not necessary and I don't think is in a great need of change.
RE: Legend Extension - Shujin - 07-29-2022
"I'm personally fine with Destiny being the way it is. If it weren't something you could pick from the very start, I'd agree more but since the idea of it is it's a more committal option, I think removing the cost entirely could easily make it feel less special."
I do usually not care for it either but I often see new players go into the trap of picking it as part of the tutorial, and its certainly a 'advanced player' thing. I do think it be cool to atleast opt OUT of if it without costs.
I am currently suffering a headache to making a new player Destiny Archer understands how the game works and I struggle, send help. And its certainly not their fault, I think its too easy to 'slip in' for people that do not know what it even implies.
Not the end of the world, but something that would prevent such would be nice.
RE: Legend Extension - lalchi - 07-30-2022
I'd like to see a rework of the LE. And I myself not sure how it should be done.
But those are not the change i'd expect.
All of the suggestion presented there make the LE completly useless,
> Have the bonus stat added directly to race. So basically delete it from LE
> Transform profession to reduce tax and mental/phys stamina instead lvl 6. So basically remplace it by something else, that personally, for me, never really bothered me. (meaning, i really can do without the taxe reduce, so why should i bother ?)
> Move Fated to traits. So deleting it from LE
> Remove Creativity. (I admit, i don't even use that one)
> Remove destiny from LE for a NPC.
That left us with a "reduce job taxe", which is really very optionnal, and the transformation.
I guess there's the deja vu too. But to what i've read, you don't even need to spend point. And you really just would need it if you do LE.
So basically it would really just be here for transformation...
That's not really what i call a good change.
Anything else i'd say is that, yes, the profession LE needs a big change. Because not everyone want to be a an ultra warrior to cook pie.
Level 6 should be available even for non fighting characters.
Maybe change it to reduce tax would be the appropriate action. I don't know, i'm not placed to really know if it'd work or not.