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+--- Thread: Check Up - State of GMs (/showthread.php?tid=7751)
Check Up - State of GMs - WaifuApple - 02-22-2021
It's been... just over four months? Either that or three, it's not entirely clear. But a third of a year already, and the same topic has come up in circles, bringing me to a simple conclusion:
It simply feels like, despite it all, nothing has changed. We had the GM team become more active for a week or two, but now that seems to have fallen away again. Which, inevitably, is a problem, because it doesn't feel at all like we've gone anywhere. Most I hear is a few minor things.
Let's start with the new application system. To be honest, glancing over it, it's not hard to see who the MVP of that is. Slydria has been pulling a lot of weight in seeing to applications, where there has been quite a lack of other GM input, and in a climate where people are increasingly asking for applications for races, this does feel like it is inevitably going to be unsustainable in it's current state.
Regarding enforcement - we had a situation where we went days with two people wandering around with names like caramel dansen, and this was brought up in GM-help in the main discord, but only seemed to get any notice when the alleged people themselves showed up in the chat. Now, if this was a more serious offense, imagine that being unattended to?
And another point to be made. Once again, it does feel like there is not enough outreach in the community from most GMs. People old and new are essentially being told to put their trust in people they may never have talked to, and may never see around whatsoever, and the fault is usually put on us for not doing so, rather than the lack of involvement from the team, which I feel is a wrong way to look at it, too. It's only sure to foster a feeling of distrust towards the team, and a feeling that they're just never there. That is very much problematic, to me.
We very much need fresh blood on the team. We did then, and since very little has changed, we definitely do now. The amount of people I've seen echo a sentiment of this just not being okay at current is absurd - and though I don't expect anything meaningful to come of this, I might as well try again.
We need more GMs. Really, we do. And since the GM response to the last thread, we've heard nothing on the matter. But we do need them, and we need them to be active members of the community who represent us, and all. I think that this is a super important thing to consider.
Please.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Kazzy - 02-22-2021
Ignoring the bait from GSM, I agree with every point made in this post.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Lewdcifer - 02-22-2021
Ignoring the, uh, above thingy.
All I'd like to say is that I feel the community, for some reason, expects an awful lot from the GM team. I don't think it's my place to say this, but I will say it regardless: please try to take it easy on them. Some of the GMs have a life and I'd understand if they'd rather not dedicate a lot of time for something they're not paid for.
I am not opposed to the idea of new GMs, however. I feel it wouldn't hurt to get more people willing to take up the mantle, and depending on the choice, it might just alleviate some of the problems the players mention (such as inactivity, or lack of GM presence in certain matters, or what have you).
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Anhita - 02-22-2021
Quote:in a climate where people are increasingly asking for applications for races,Its still a sentiment I dont fully agree with, as a person who has trouble working up the courage just to interact with people half the time. But I mostly just bring this up because I feel like the solution to this is just more effort on the GMs part to enforce things and this feels more like a bandaid fix than anything else that fucks over people like myself and the few who mostly just play the game to play the actual mechanical game.
But thats not really the focus of the thread, So uh. I will throw my hat in the 'I agree with most of everything else' camp.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Ham - 02-22-2021
Heavily depends on the people who will be cast as new GMs tbh, if your only reason is 'we need more so let's get Randy McRandinston from IT' without strong reason then you risk the same loop imo.
And, in all honesty, some of the GM team is fine, I've talked to a bunch and I've gotten responses at a rather normal rate. Sure sometimes RL can get in the way or whatever but they're human too ya know, they can get burnt-out way more than us who don't religiously have to follow SL2's everything, and they for sure don't deserve being dissed behind people's back.
And for the record, change doesn't always need GM input I guess, most of the time sure but uh... you really think players can't help with minor stuff too for new players?
In conclusion: Not all of the GM team is incompetent as they're doing their best and they deserve atleast one or two 'hey guys nice work' every now and then. and if you do get fresh blood, make sure it's not some clique, make sure it's someone trustworthy not to regret casting later on. Although I don't think there is any hurry for new GMs to be had since, yea, players aren't really brainlets who sit and watch people who want clarifications on what X in the Y tab does in battle. GMs aren't the end all be all for the playerbase support- I don't mean any offense by that just, yea, they're not powerless as you think.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Sarah54321 - 02-22-2021
The post covers a lot of issues that I have with the GM team, and I'll be very honest in what it feels like to me. I feel like Slydria is the hardest working GM, and I feel bad going to him because of this fact. It'd be nice to be able to have someone else to go to as an alternative in case Slydria needs a break.
That aside, it would need to have some form of careful choosing. I feel like maybe a 'Trial Period' might be good, too.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - WaifuApple - 02-22-2021
Trial Mods / GMs are a thing I've seen about in other communities, for sure. Of course, I can't say much for their effectiveness here, but considering I worry there'd be a lack of people trusted to take on the role proper, it could serve as a way to offer more confidence for everyone in the people that end up going on to help with the community. Either way, getting new members on the team is certainly important to push for.
To the mention of GMs having a life, and not wanting to dedicate their entire time to this, I know, and I understand that. But that very much adds to the argument needed for more. In a climate where the current team can't be there all the time, more people to fill those gaps is, well, very important. Whether their fault or not, there is a definite desire in the community for more active manpower. Because being a good person is great and all, yes - but if half of the community knows nothing about you, that doesn't really matter. They're probably not going to feel that comfortable approaching you. It is very different if you're in one of the few groups frequented, as you get chance to know them at least somewhat.
And I agree with the sentiment that we don't just want random people getting in the role, but it's not my place to be suggesting who gets the position, or even how things are decided. It would inevitably be welcomed if the community was able to make suggestions, with ultimate choice up to the GMs and Dev for mediation - but in the end, how it happens is how it happens. Right now I'm just trying to advocate for more staff at all.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Lonestar - 02-22-2021
I would honestly like more active and present within the community GMs than anything, truthfully. We had that in the past with Sawrock and MakeshiftWalrus back when they were GMs, where they played the game and made themselves known by interacting with the community both OOCly and ICly out in public. I'm not asking for them to be in-game 24/7, because that's just silly, but that they've been far inactive, that they have excluding a few current GMs like Slydria who approaches more the game in an administrating view.
Currently we have a few GMs that barely show their faces around and only do when pressured or when highly important matters arise (See: Opinion Threads). I would like that changed overall.
And yes, Real Life can prove to be troublesome sometimes, making yourself more busy than anything. But at the same time being an GM was something that was never forced upon any of them, it's a voluntary job that you accept or decline. If you can't do your job actively because life's too busy and there's no sign of it stopping anytime soon, then it's often best to step out in my opinion.
As for new GMs, that's a constant worry that plagues my mind, but not one that I have the solution for nor the right to choose who should and who should not be there.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - MakeshiftWalrus - 02-22-2021
Having previously been apart of the mentioned, I'm going to offer a couple of suggestions to how I think the game could vastly improve its current staff staff structure. This is purely how I would want to structure an administrative team. I'll also be offering criticism here, and there where I feel it might be required. This might border on rambling, bear with me.
Part 1: Clockwork, Oil, and the Administrative Engine
Current perceived issues:
- A lack of diversity, and direction in the current team leads to many needs going unfulfilled, or being shelved as other things become prioritized.
- Far too few roles to manage everything that goes on. The work becomes loaded towards those who step up, leaving little for the less proactive.
- Bottlenecks galore, presumably because one person is trying to handle things alone.
Potential fixes:
- Taking on more members of the administrative team.
- A rework of the present structure.
The Bread:
As it stands, one of the issues many have with the GM team is how little they outwardly show upon the game. Many hardly know them at all, and thusly remain incapable of forming a different opinion than the one of the social circle they currently reside in, which from my observations echo mostly a negative tone when the topic comes up. It's hard to tell what's justified, and what isn't, even for someone whom spend a considerable amount of time within the same circumstances. Since then, though, I haven't personally felt the situation improve in this regard, outside of the few weeks after the forum's last nuclear meltdown.
We, the players, are promised the high heavens of change to come, and while some efforts have been made from then, to now, such as the application forums, and the addition of a dedicated mapping team, other areas are slacking severely despite how many voices spoke out on those particular subjects. I won't mention what it is, but I'm sure many can think of the obvious. And nearly four months later, we're seemingly almost there. That, in my opinion, just isn't good enough when so many players are relying on it.
What we've gotten so far is wonderful, but in order to facility a less stagnant growth of both the playerbase, and the game itself, matters of expansion should be considered, especially so when the momentum of the last wave of additions has so far ceased. Many might scoff at the idea of increasing the burden, but fail to recognize that the idea isn't to overwhelm those in charge, but to also expand where it's required on the administrative side of things. After my own experiences, I have zero desire to ever act as a moderating body again, but many share the sentiment that more administrative power is needed, and so I offer what I perceive to be the best compromise: A way to expand the team without needlessly shuffling in more GMs where they might not be needed.
Part 2: Head, Shoulders, Arms, and Legs
An online game is much like a body in a sense. We need every part to do its function to be a total human, and right now we only have the head, and the arms. This should in my opinion change to offer a more diverse selection of roles for players to aid the community in. This is already underway for multiple things, but could stand to be expanded upon in ways that would allow for much more to be done in a shorter amount of time. Such a structure could look like this:
Tier 0: The Developer
The head honcho. I have little in criticism for Neus. I wish they'd communicated more during the time I'd been a GM. Oftentimes the role felt very directionless, and ungratifying. Even after the better half of two years, they remain an enigma to me, and most of all the community. I can understand the need for distance when every other game on BYOND seem to have extremely eccentric, and/or unpopular owners, but communication is oh so important when it comes to managing the team supposed to run your game. I don't think it'd be a poor idea to be more open to the community, scary as it might be.
Tier 1: The GM
The ones supposed to oversee the field, and handle things out the depth of those below them. Ideally, there are five of them to break ties in cases of democratic votes, and ideally, they have their hands in more things than simply the administrative business. A good GM is an active pillar of the community, and knows most of the players at minimum by name, if not by merit. If anything affects the world, these are the people you should go to for approval. It is in my belief that any one of them should be able to perform the other's duties independent of each other if it becomes necessary, and for that reason, no one GM should have total dominion over any subject. It should always be a cooperative effort.
Tier 2: The Moderator
The first new addition to the line-up. The Moderator's job is to ensure that everything is up to code upon the game. If anyone is grinding their alts, or doing something dirty in the corner, they should be the very first to sniff it out, and give them a good spanking. Additionally, they should always be able to cite the rules, and be capable of assisting anyone that might need help. It would not be their job to do community-wide role-playing content, although they should certainly have the tools to do so if they wanted. Whereas the GMs are the ones handling longer investigations, and deeper breaks of conduct, the Moderators are more of the here-and-now-brand of rule enforcement.
Tier 2: The Application Manager
The rank that should have the fewest people, but not because of being the least important. This is a role specifically meant to tend the less serious aspects of the application forum, such as those applying for age, fluff powers, or height. General things that wouldn't have any impact other than for the character itself. This is to keep breadwork out of the GMs' hands, and though they should always be there to supervise, and instruct on things the Manager might be uncertain about, a GM should only really be touching applications of more serious nature, such as event lines, dramatically radical character abilities, or world-shaping lore like kingdoms, and world events. The Application Manager can play a moderating role in-game, but I personally wouldn't have them do both out of concern for stress.
Tier 3: The Eventmin
I don't think anything needs to be changed about this role. So far, it's going strong, and it's nice to see it be used. It would be nice if people could be made into Eventmins temporarily through easy means, if a normal player wanted to run their own things, rather than relying on an Eventmin to use all of their tools for them. This might defeat the point of having them in the first place, though.
Tier 3: The Mapper
I can't comment on this role much. We haven't seen what they're up to so far. Hopefully they'll churn out some amazing stuff, we'll just have to see.
Tier 3: The Lore Writer
One complaint I see leveled against the game a lot, is the fact that though the game is incredibly broad in scope, it suffers greatly from being surface-level on nearly every point, relying instead on lore questions that after years, upon years of webbed answers either begin to contradict themselves, or never reaches the total scope of the community as a result of being completely buried. Many attempts were made to rectify this, but it was unfortunately never good enough. Additionally, there are still many, maaaany holes we have no clue about that could be patched through the inclusion of a player-driven team of writers.
The team would be overseen directly by the GMs, and nothing would be posted without the clear acceptance from Neus themselves. Though anyone should be capable of writing 'Canon' lore with the same approval, this team of writers would exist purely to organize with the staff to flesh out the world where it was needed in a motivated manner. It would also be possble to communicate who was writing for what as a result, so multiple people aren't stepping on toes. Finally, it would also allow an open forum where people could spitball lore to each other, and offer criticism before it was offered to Neus, or the GMs for approval.
Part 3: Conclusion
What I want to see improved first, and foremost about the game, is the foundation it stands on. The GMs, and Neus in particular, feel unapproachable at times, and much of that I feel isn't necessarily their fault. With additional people manning the ship, however, it would naturally force more interaction, and thus spread deeper into the community as a whole. It would, in my opinion, also help the general stability of the game.
If you've managed to read through my entire post, then congratulations, and thank you. I hope it brought a couple of ideas to mind.
RE: Check Up - State of GMs - Xaertis - 02-22-2021
I would like to throw in my two cents here. I personally have had great experience asking other players questions in OOC or on Discord whenever I need help with something simple. Even as much as certain RP rules. Everyone that offered help would be sure to tag on "I think X, but be sure to double check with a GM first!"
Which is great. I don't feel like I'm at a loss for assistance in anything. If at all, I would suggest some sort of Helper role that you see becoming more common in MMORPG's nowadays. A regular player that stands out for helping new players, answering questions, and being an overall good guy.
I love MakeshiftWalrus's post and agree with most of his ideas. In regards to the moderator role I would say that this is, in my opinion, the most important thing. With a proper checks and balance system it isn't anything that can be exploited and it offers a massive morale boost to the average player. And it helps free up the different team members to do their actual main job as well. Maintaining the 'law', so to speak, makes every other level of the game and the staff team move along in a much smoother manner (I speak from personal experience).
This also prevents flooding the game with GM's, while a moderator won't break the community if they become inactive.