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KADOUHA! - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: KADOUHA! (/showthread.php?tid=2347)

KADOUHA! - Rendar - 02-08-2016

Kadouha is dealing unresistable light magic damage to the target that is hit.

The description states

"Consumes Ki, up to a maximum (based on Rank), and unleashes a projectile of it in a line that travels X (1+1 per 5 Ki) Range away or until it hits an enemy. On hit, it deals Light magic damage equal to your Fist's Power + your WIL + the Ki consumed. It also gains bonus effects if it consumes enough Ki.
10 Ki: Explodes when the projectile ends, dealing half of its damage to enemies who weren't hit in 3 Range.
20 Ki: Pierces enemies instead of being destroyed.
30 Ki: Grows in size, hitting a wider area every step."

Implying that it isn't meant to do that so uh...

Bug? Probably.

Re: KADOUHA! - Neus - 02-11-2016

Unless you have calcs to back up the claim, then I don't know what to tell you. As far as I can tell the unresistable flag isn't being passed by this skill.

Re: KADOUHA! - Rendar - 02-11-2016

--- ROUND 2 ---
OOC Buffoon recovered 1 HP.
OOC Buffoon recovered 2 FP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 1 HP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 11 FP.
OOC Buffoon's turn.
Purple Suited Nurse takes 96 Light damage. (30 ki )
OOC Buffoon's turn.
OOC Buffoon recovered 68 HP.
OOC Buffoon's turn.
Purple Suited Nurse's turn.
OOC Buffoon recovered 3 FP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 92 HP.
Purple Suited Nurse's turn.
--- ROUND 3 ---
OOC Buffoon recovered 1 HP.
OOC Buffoon recovered 2 FP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 1 HP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 11 FP.
OOC Buffoon's turn.
Purple Suited Nurse takes 96 Light damage. (30 ki ???)
OOC Buffoon's turn.
Purple Suited Nurse takes 96 Light damage. (20 ki???)
Purple Suited Nurse's turn.


I have 57 RES.
Buffoon has 60 WIL, 26 POW Fist, and R1 Kadouha.
No light resist, either.

Later on, with R5 Kadouha

--- ROUND 2 ---
OOC Buffoon recovered 1 HP.
OOC Buffoon recovered 2 FP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 1 HP.
Purple Suited Nurse recovered 11 FP.
OOC Buffoon's turn.
Purple Suited Nurse takes 116 Light damage. (used all ki)
OOC Buffoon's turn.

LATER ON

Scythe Maniac takes 116 Light damage.
Purple Suited Nurse takes 116 Light damage.

11 Resist vs 57 resist.

It's definitely unresistable, Dev.

Re: KADOUHA! - Snake - 02-16-2016

Been there, tested that.

11 RES Scythe Kunai and 57 RES Nurse Derg.
Both took the same damage from a max charged Kadouha. So it is probably hitting Defense instead of Resistance.
Or just being unresistable, ignoring Defense/Resistance.

Tbh, it's ''fair'' only because it's eating 30 Ki and your golden glow. And Ki is pretty dank to charge if you're a non-Willpower Monk.

Re: KADOUHA! - Ranylyn - 02-17-2016

"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=12265#p12265 Wrote:Snake ยป Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:16 pm[/url]"]Tbh, it's ''fair'' only because it's eating 30 Ki and your golden glow. And Ki is pretty dank to charge if you're a non-Willpower Monk.

This was my first thought, but it's dawned on me that I've never actually used Kadouha and I don't know if there's actually a minimum Ki cost or whatnot. I mean, if it's theoretically spammable, that's one thing. But if it takes a lot of Ki to use and is weaker than Setting Sun...? So I decided to slap Monk on and try it for a bit.

My findings: Kadouha is indeed useable 2x per turn at 0 Ki and still ignores Res. (It also ignores Empty Palms, so a bare fist counts as 5 power.)

Putting the rest of my ramblings in a spoiler tag to keep it compact:

So let's discuss Ki generation/efficiency for a moment before we get back to this.

Even at the absolute most intense charging possible (Main class Monk, R3 spirituality for 6 per round, and 2x R5 Aid) You can get a maximum of 18 in one round for the cost of 32 FP, or 15 for a recovery of 16 FP (Main class Monk, R3 Spirituality, R5 Power Up) So a 30 ki variant takes a few turns between uses.

Kadouha: Fist + Wil + Ki Consumed (Max: 30) for 23 FP
Setting Sun: Str + Fist + Will + Bonus (5-13) for 4 Ki and 10-18 FP.

You don't want to spam Kadouha, because of multiple reasons: FP cost comes to mind, and unless your target laughs at fire, Setting Sun outclasses it in every way at low Ki, (The bonus damage alone makes a difference, even if your strength is garbage.) Even at maximum Ki, Kadouha largely just gets AOE properties - and these properties can conflict (Example: What if you WANT it to Detonate upon impact instead of piercing through?)

Back to the unresistable Kadouha now. Monk is generally a more physical class (0% Wil gain, and a base class offensive skillset scaling almost entirely off Str with the exception of a Cel skill) so it's not like they don't already have a way around Res (Unless an Evoker changed to Monk at 60, of course.) But if a target has good Def AND Res, I completely get why not giving spammable unresisteable damage makes all the sense. BUT. I think a 30 Ki bonus for it to be unresisteable would be fair to offset all the time spent just getting it ready!


TLDR Version: It needs to be resistable. At low Ki amounts at least. But a perk to make a 30 Ki version ignore it would be neat, maybe. Anyways, this is most definitely a bug. If we want to discuss it further, someone can make a Balance Fu thread.