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+---- Thread: Resource Classes and PvE (/showthread.php?tid=11303)
Resource Classes and PvE - Autumn - 07-16-2024
Get your pitchforks down this isn't about buffing or addressing class balance in PvP in any semblance, form or fashion.
When it comes to resource-heavy classes, a lot of them fall behind very severely in PvE content due to needing to set up their resources to be as effective as what other classes might get out of the get-go, this is only ever apparently frustrating for those classes if they're paired up with said classes that can be ready to murder from the start of the fight.
The primary classes that are mostly crippled from this are:
-Solblader
-Monk
-Ruler
And to a much lesser extent this can affect:
-Evoker
-Verglas
It's not very fun for instance if your character is centered around getting Holy Shield or Holy Sword up, and having to get your resources, get the buff, get your resources again for Solsphere, buff the solsphere, and now its round 3 and everything is already mostly dead, it makes you only ever really useful in boss fights doesn't it? This also happens to Ruler, and to a lesser extent some Monks (where as some can get the party started immediately)
So I think that Solblader/Monk/Ruler should start with full resources when against only monsters (against bosses this could be disabled), as for the other 2 that are mentioned, these classes don't actually need anything, but they'd appreciate slight buffs such as:
For Evoker: Starting with Charge Mind active, given it's not doubling damage anymore.
For Verglas: Starting with some ice around them on fight start would halve the momentum cost of setting up.
But realistically these two classes, especially after some previous QoL buffs don't need it quite as much as the aforementioned 3.
And that's pretty much it, I don't really see any other classes struggle as much as the ones mentioned in this thread, to note this only is ever an issue when you're paired with friends, as you don't want to feel like dead weight.
RE: Resource Classes and PvE - MothEnthusiast - 07-16-2024
I feel like with the Evo CM change, CM should just be made 3m with a 2-3 round cooldown to prevent complete dodge death. Though admittedly this would affect PVP and this is a PVE thread, but I'm kind of against the idea of classes functioning wildly differently between PVE and PVP. It causes a disconnect in IC matters that just feels... meh.
That said... It is kind of a hard issue. PVE (events and grinding alike) does kind of suck for classes with extended set-up or resources in general, so it might just be a lesser of two evils situation.
Honorable mention to VA, but iirc VA's resource persists between fights.
RE: Resource Classes and PvE - Rendar - 07-16-2024
It creates a big disconnect, but it's miserable. I say this as having had a Ruler in my party. And also having BEEN the ruler in a party.
If the map is small, or the event mobs are Rush Down mobs. There is zero time for me to ever put down galren Stone Dragon > Despot Drill to max out geomaterial. And then summon > buff next turn. And even then, my mobs are still weak as all get out and going to likely die in 2-3 hits depending on the fight in general. Solblader gets around this in some regards by being able to do other things (Such as casting non-mercalan spells / critting giving solcharge)...
Monks are awful as well. Because you will always see a turn 0 Power Up (and then likely Turn 1 self-buffs). It's the penalty that every class has to deal with if they have buffs that they require to function. Dodgies get this to a lesser extent, but it's still something that has to occur vs Tanks/non set up classes being able to turn 0 blast you to death.
I'm all for this, or even having it be an option that EMs can set on Event Encounters of "Able To Prepare" for the fight or "Ambushed" (Not actual Ambushed. But just not able to get their pre-fight buffs off).
...Course. Just having buffs that we could apply outside of combat/before a fight starts might fundamentally change things. But it's nice.
RE: Resource Classes and PvE - Lolzytripd - 07-16-2024
(07-16-2024, 10:03 PM)Rendar Wrote: It creates a big disconnect, but it's miserable. I say this as having had a Ruler in my party. And also having BEEN the ruler in a party.I would greatly enjoy a toggle button to give players 1 round of no movement/movement skills to use for buffs.
If the map is small, or the event mobs are Rush Down mobs. There is zero time for me to ever put down galren Stone Dragon > Despot Drill to max out geomaterial. And then summon > buff next turn. And even then, my mobs are still weak as all get out and going to likely die in 2-3 hits depending on the fight in general. Solblader gets around this in some regards by being able to do other things (Such as casting non-mercalan spells / critting giving solcharge)...
Monks are awful as well. Because you will always see a turn 0 Power Up (and then likely Turn 1 self-buffs). It's the penalty that every class has to deal with if they have buffs that they require to function. Dodgies get this to a lesser extent, but it's still something that has to occur vs Tanks/non set up classes being able to turn 0 blast you to death.
I'm all for this, or even having it be an option that EMs can set on Event Encounters of "Able To Prepare" for the fight or "Ambushed" (Not actual Ambushed. But just not able to get their pre-fight buffs off).
...Course. Just having buffs that we could apply outside of combat/before a fight starts might fundamentally change things. But it's nice.
RE: Resource Classes and PvE - Raigen.Convict - 07-19-2024
A boring bandaid fix is to have options for these classes to deal damage that don't interact with the other parts much but in exchange it's cheap damage output that allows them to play with the rest of the party...
RE: Resource Classes and PvE - Shujin - 07-19-2024
Honestly, I am okay with options like that for PvE exclusive. Recourse gathering, significantly slows you down in every fight, while many other classes and just go. In general, I believe that PvE needs a couple of changes to make it more balanced along the classes and archetypes. Like Dodgies versus Tanks setups, but that has been a growing problem for a while now and probably needs other solutions.
But yeah, I think OP's suggestion would make things valid, while keeping PvP normal. I would honestly add Void Assassin to the list, I know they already keep their stuff through battles, but as a voidmage you still burn through it quickly and realistically you will always end up having 60 in every fight that matters, it just sometimes needs you to have one fake fight where you just charge up. having just 60 from the get go would remove the fake fight every so often.