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+--- Thread: Korvara and new players (/showthread.php?tid=10049)
Korvara and new players - Aleccia Rosewater - 03-08-2023
As a new arrival how am I supposed to get into Korvara?
People are very spread out, there are fewer mechanics, fewer hooks to get players interacting with each other, not to mention that the crystal-hunt thing rewards solo exploration. The factions are supposed to all have a nationalist feel as a unifier but there's no mechanics to get you attached to any one group. The overuse of player housing and "dont touch this" signs only gives less reason to get invested as the early days where you could influence things are already over. (also a problem with Sigrogana but to a much lesser extent). Currently the roadsigns are still half-frozen. I want to see this insane frozen wasteland but that event is long past
And I tried to get into it. I wanted to like Korvara but if I end up aimlessly wandering around while watching others doing likewise I have to question what is the point of playing. There are just not enough hooks to get people interacting with each other. And I went through all that effort brainstorming an aquamancer/water druid and writing up a decent profile! like would the GMs even notice if i moved my aquamancer from korvara to sigrogana its not like i had more then one meaningful interaction ("oh crackers that jam just mauled the kraboid"). dunno maybe i should have done a tourist rp where i go around annoying everyone with a photography camera until the GMs tell me to stop~
I'm guessing that you guys asked for a more pure RP experience but without thinking about what you might get or how it might split the playerbase? It really is a case where people need to be careful what they ask for
Hrm? Redesign Korvara? well I would try to create a urban fantasy (yes, with sigrogana races) that takes inspiration from superhero comics and children's cartoons where absurd tech is everywhere and daily life is so often interrupted by monsters. Instead of a large empty sandbox dev time would be spent creating a densely-packed environment where player regularly run into each other and every event and location is backed up by mechanics. Rent an apartment, work a temp job, fight the government, buy a car and crash it, hide from the fifth zombie apocalypse, take good care of the environment and carve out your own niche in a world that has long sense stopped making sense. I dunno if it would be any good or if you lot would like it but in my mind its a better vision of what a second shard should look like
RE: Korvara and new players - Dezark - 03-08-2023
So, I'mma have to ask what being asked exactly on this firstly? In term for "how to get into Korvara" when your making your character, there a table you can choose to go to Korvara or Main land specifically, for term of old characters, you can't do anything to go between either no. The regard of SL2 as a whole, is your hooks are what you do, you go out and fight, rp and bond with others and join into things, Korvara was designed with the aspect that the map was meant to not have transition or overworld like G6 (great six) does, and instead encourages players to travel around and stick to a in character style the entire way through.
The answer is not to do tourist rp and try to annoy people with a camera, idk what that gives for the idea of doing so, but that'll just get you smacked by a GM first and foremost, even on G6, you'll find the community split because each person does something different. Sorry to say but the idea of "urban fantasy" with the comics and cartoons and absurd tech isn't something you'll find in either place, that sorta stuff your likely better finding in other games rather than Sigrogana i'm afraid.
RE: Korvara and new players - Imotepchief - 03-08-2023
Player housing isn't really a thing in Korvara, there's very little stopping people from wandering in to places if they choose to, unlike Sigrogana where there is customizable housing that can be locked to people not on specific lists to allow entry. When it comes to sign posts, people are still free to interact, as long as notification is made of said interactions, generally on discord in pings and such.
There is far more intergration between the Korvara discord and in game than there ever was on Sigrogana mainland and a quick perusing of such will rapidly point you in the direction of activity.
As for the crystal collections, such can be done in a party, easily, only the leader of such needing to pass over it for all present to collect, so it's something of a simply task to hand the party leadership over to whoever has the least in terms of crystals and have them collect them, as they become invisible after you've collected them yourself.
Personally I find Korvara to be highly entertaining, but it is very much on you to both put yourself out there to rp with others and keep an eye on pings, announcements and notices, if you want to be part of major events.
RE: Korvara and new players - Senna - 03-09-2023
The complaints are valid, but the suggestion is asking a lot. The world is already set and still growing. There is a lot going on, but this is where your complaints come into play.
If you have no way or no genuine connection to drag you into those plotlines, you end up in the same situation you mention now. I’m not going to downplay it as I’ve seen and known people that have been through the same situation. Being popular/well known in the community, slapping that name on your profile or even on your key is the easiest way to get pulled into the world.
The suggestions you’ve mentioned aren’t something this game is yet. Some of those elements ARE in the game. Annoying people isn’t exactly the way to go, as I wouldn’t suggest that. I have seen people take that route and get themselves known enough, but not all clout is good clout. I can understand that you probably have no real reason to log on if everything you have access to is real life sim, but the best suggestion I can offer to you is to try your best to interact with others. Try to wiggle your way into groups and make friends as that’s all you can really do.
RE: Korvara and new players - Aleccia Rosewater - 03-09-2023
"The answer is not to do tourist rp and try to annoy people with a camera"
But it would be a lively half-hour of trolling, certainly more entertaining then a normal char. My point here is that I would have more fun playing Korvara in a way that is not intended
"Personally I find Korvara to be highly entertaining"
I'm happy for you~
"but it is very much on you to both put yourself out there to rp with others"
what's the hook to get characters to do so. Adventurers are fundamentally outcasts and there are no gameplay mechanics to tie people to a specific place. Geladyne could have a barebones military-rank system to get people started. Why am I not filling out paperwork to give to a player or doing some kind of training test? A tiny bit of game mechanic would go a long way here but you lot didn't ask yourselves these questions when you asked for Korvara
"There is far more integration between the Korvara discord and in game than there ever was on Sigrogana mainland"
I don't see why this is a good thing. Having to frequently switch between discord and byond? It would be better for immersion to just roleplay in discord. I understand that people have real lives but just like the rest of Korvara there isn't any good way of solving the problem.
"when your making your character, there a table you can choose to go to Korvara or Main land specifically, for term of old characters, you can't do anything to go between either no"
From a strict interpretation of server rules yes this is correct I cannot just delete a Korvara char and remake it for sigrogana or elsewhere. I can also think of far worse rulebreaks when creating a char I could just play dumb and pretend Korvara never happened after all there are only so many ways to write a specialized character such as an aquamancer. Now if I have managed to interact with others then my char would absolutely have to stay on Korava but if I had succeeded at that I won't be wanting to return to Sigrogana.
"Player housing isn't really a thing in Korvara"
okay then what do you call it when there are dwellings everywhere belonging to specific clans
"The complaints are valid, but the suggestion is asking a lot."
dunno just trying to come up with an alternative to show that im not just hating instead of "lol this sux"
RE: Korvara and new players - messaiyan - 03-09-2023
If you've read the basic lore for Korvara's factions and still managed to make an outcast, then maybe you'll find something to do in the Wanderer's Vale. It's basically Korvara's Adventurer's Guild and seems like a pretty decent catch-all if you've got nothing else going on. If your character's poor, honing their skills, a fugitive, etc. then there are your hooks.
Maybe as you explore the cities and get used to the world, you'll get ideas to play a more inspired role.
RE: Korvara and new players - Kyratio - 03-09-2023
I'm fairly certain what's trying to be conveyed here is a number of things that do genuinely have a valid point of criticism to the game itself as, both G6 and Korvara, especially Korvara itself is very specific and unforgiving to people who have never played it before. Maybe I'm wrong and misinterpreting, but I'll try and lay out what I THINK is being said.
"People are very spread out, there are fewer mechanics, fewer hooks to get players interacting with each other, not to mention that the crystal-hunt thing rewards solo exploration. The factions are supposed to all have a nationalist feel as a unifier but there's no mechanics to get you attached to any one group. The overuse of player housing and "dont touch this" signs only gives less reason to get invested as the early days where you could influence things are already over. (also a problem with Sigrogana but to a much lesser extent)."
People are very spread out, yes. This is due to every nation feeling like a completely different clique, basically. Sure, there are lots of people who make characters into each nation with alts, but there are also those who stick to one nation. Each of them have differing principles and morals, so on and so forth. This has led to a lot of OOC and IC conflict due to differing points of view in many, many areas. There are no mechanics to force these things as (I am going to speak from what I perceive to be Dev's reason), this would damper RP and force scenarios that otherwise are much more genuine and in the player's control.
The problem with this, is this leads to people who are new, don't feel like putting time into learning all the intricate and very much so hidden parts of lore in the game (or at the very least, hard to find as a new player), or are just less creative than some, are very much so put into a feeling of "I have no idea what I can and can't do, I have no idea what I should do, and when I look at the forums to find out, I find way too much information to gather at once, and lots of angry people." Same for the discord. Sure, you learn eventually if you stick with it, but that doesn't mean it isn't an issue.
Furthermore, unless the player wants to spend hours backpedaling through the notice boards, of every nation once they figure out that's where they can get good info on relations of nations, they have no idea what the relations of nations are. Yes, they can eventually put together Telegrad is the farm nation, Meiaquar is the merchant nation, Geladyne is the war nation, Duyuei is the tribe nation... But that doesn't really help much. Especially when you look at the outlook of someone who's never done this before.
And finally, the last bit about influencing things and the "don't touch this" signs. That's... Well, that's just a Korvara issue as a whole. The map was small and basically gave no room for new encampments or nations as the four big original nations claimed all the land day 1, basically. Yes, new encampments still happened and the likes, but only for those with good knowledge and popularity in the game, or those who were willing to go through hell. There's a reason why the original creators of 2/3 of those encampments aren't in them anymore. This issue stems from how small the map was and how the leaders of each nation went about claiming every bit of Korvara. Now, this could've been fixed with the recent update which added a good amount more to the map, but, sadly the core of the issue is still at hand and each bit of land is of course being claimed by the big nations as much as they can. It's slowed down since the beginning as, some leaders are quitting or getting tired, or just inactive, but it's still there.
"And I tried to get into it. I wanted to like Korvara but if I end up aimlessly wandering around while watching others doing likewise I have to question what is the point of playing."
Ultimately, the game isn't going to change to cater to any new or unknown player. I mean, obviously. So in the end all you can really do is hunker down and explore all the options I listed above in learning the game, the nations, the communities of Korvara, and being really compelling with your character if you want to be involved in anything big. On the other side of things,
"dunno maybe i should have done a tourist rp where i go around annoying everyone with a photography camera until the GMs tell me to stop~"
Yes, you could do something like that. But many in this community are very vindictive and will target you and your characters if you do too much to wrong them. Yes, it may sound harmless, but, well, yeah. If you do go that route, I suggest being more of a prankster of some sort that is overall harmless unless you have thick skin.
As for the whole bit of changing how Korvara is, I mean, yeah sure those ideas could be fun but ultimately that's just not the setting Dev chose or will ever choose. G6 is G6, Korvara is Korvara. Their core concepts aren't going to be moving.
"what's the hook to get characters to do so. Adventurers are fundamentally outcasts and there are no gameplay mechanics to tie people to a specific place. Geladyne could have a barebones military-rank system to get people started. Why am I not filling out paperwork to give to a player or doing some kind of training test? A tiny bit of game mechanic would go a long way here but you lot didn't ask yourselves these questions when you asked for Korvara"
I honestly agree with you here. Putting more ways to go about properly doing and having jobs in the game would REALLY add to the life and overall feeling of Korvara's nationalistic focus. But, as others have said this is still possible and done. You just have to be creative about it, or go about it with premade ideas in groups.
"I don't see why this is a good thing. Having to frequently switch between discord and byond? It would be better for immersion to just roleplay in discord. I understand that people have real lives but just like the rest of Korvara there isn't any good way of solving the problem."
I also agree with you here in a lot of ways. If Dev could implement actual boards in game rather than forcing people to be on the Discord to be fully immersed, that'd be great. But, well, I get it. It's hard and it'd come with a lot of difficult loops and hoops to really get it implemented wholly in the game where you never need to be on the Discord.
"okay then what do you call it when there are dwellings everywhere belonging to specific clans"
The idea is no single player housing and no locks. Every house or building in Korvara is either a building for people to gather, a shop or any other sort of merchant/npc house, or it's a leader's residence to (hopefully) use for meetings and the likes for their people and other political stuff. Personally, I myself don't dislike player housing, I just dislike how it was done in G6. It could've been improved upon and the likes but, the current way of doing things to encourage RP makes sense and I get it in the end. I just like being able to have a house and decorate it to my liking while sharing it with everyone, personally.
"dunno just trying to come up with an alternative to show that im not just hating instead of "lol this sux""
And good on you for trying to bring about constructive criticism rather than just 'lol this sux'! Many people in this community are very defensive about this game rather than being open to discussion, so it's often hard to do that.
RE: Korvara and new players - Aleccia Rosewater - 03-09-2023
Some indie games open with a splash screen saying "this is how the game is meant to be played". Kovara has no such thing and the playerbase has not created a introduction themselves using the signs that they like placing everywhere. Am I playing Kovara incorrectly by just wandering around the island? I have no way of knowing~
It's only through this thread that I have realized that players (probably?) go back and forwards through the well-hidden Kovara discord and the game itself. Maybe true discord integration is not viable but the game doesn't even try. There is no primer on the setting either so I have to make assumptions when creating the backstory for my character's parents and hope I don't miss a key detail. (i dont understand why everyone starts with the child). Is there a checklist of things somewhere that I have to do to get started with Kovara? Otherwise I am left with a perfectly good character that could be used for sigrogana and I won't ever have to look back
There's also the metagame problem of the island not having the tech for longrange communication. It's hardly the worst problem but without a telegraph or similar how would a character know about the friendly jam event as it happens
RE: Korvara and new players - Kyratio - 03-09-2023
(03-09-2023, 07:49 PM)Aleccia Rosewater Wrote: Some indie games open with a splash screen saying "this is how the game is meant to be played". Kovara has no such thing and the playerbase has not created a introduction themselves using the signs that they like placing everywhere. Am I playing Kovara incorrectly by just wandering around the island? I have no way of knowing~
It's only through this thread that I have realized that players (probably?) go back and forwards through the well-hidden Kovara discord and the game itself. Maybe true discord integration is not viable but the game doesn't even try. There is no primer on the setting either so I have to make assumptions when creating the backstory for my character's parents and hope I don't miss a key detail. (i dont understand why everyone starts with the child). Is there a checklist of things somewhere that I have to do to get started with Kovara? Otherwise I am left with a perfectly good character that could be used for sigrogana and I won't ever have to look back
There's also the metagame problem of the island not having the tech for longrange communication. It's hardly the worst problem but without a telegraph or similar how would a character know about the friendly jam event as it happens
To be honest the only way to fully know all the ongoings of Korvara is to, as I said, go through the discord and look through all the specific nation/encampment boards and announcements and piece together what's going on. That, or ask someone who knows.
Otherwise I believe the best possible source of Korvara info would be this. https://neus-projects.net/korvara/
RE: Korvara and new players - Aleccia Rosewater - 03-10-2023
So to start with Kovara I have to do the following:
- Skim over discord to get an idea of what a character should look like
- Come up with a short desc/backstory for both the character's parents. (seriously why do writers so often start with the character as step 1). Hope you didn't accidently create a disallowed char as there is no char approval process
- Build a character profile based on the combined traits of both parents. Sort out build, exc, char done.
- Boggle at how the playerbase saw fit to split the game into entirely desperate halves. Select "Kovara" and pick a town
- Wander around ingame to collect info that could be consolidated into an updated primer
- Optionally realize that the character you created is not the one you actually want to play in this environment
- Fail to locate the link to the kovara discord either stumble upon it through sheer luck or move on to next step
- Have someone explain to you that the kovara discord is separate from the normal one and receive a link to it
- Check discord for pings and notice boards. Wonder why this can't be done ingame and why there is no dedicated RP finder. Realize that some people have irl lives
- Think about the wiki's suggestion that new players should start in Kovara despite the other shard being much less difficult to play
- Find your own niche in a world of signposts where most roles are already filled
With 11 steps of preliminary setup done now you can finally begin! Or am I missing something? dunno maybe there could be tools to make getting started less difficult. i get that players are supposed to make their own setting but that initial lorewriting phase is already past
Was splitting the playerbase in half with two entirely separate shards really a good idea? Meranthe is at least upfront about being built for heavy-roleplay. How often do new arrivals give up on Kovara and go back to Sigrogana or SS13?