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+--- Thread: Gone Nuclear (/showthread.php?tid=11564)
RE: Gone Nuclear - Lolzytripd - 11-18-2024
(11-18-2024, 12:13 AM)pilcrow Wrote:I just don't feel that punishing luminary to the point its never worth takings isn't the way, if you soft cap it, people will just hit the soft cap on a more effective non luminary build.(11-17-2024, 03:26 PM)Lolzytripd Wrote: This still sounds like a convoluted way to ask for a global Dr buff.
nerfing swa and elemental attack stacking is inversely a DR buff, when DR stacking is the biggest problem right now.
it really isn't. a dr buff would overwhelmingly hose people at the lower end of the scale, and exclusively so even. people at the extreme end of damage stacking... would simply not be affected as much, because they're already at the extreme end where dr is less impactful.
on the other hand, softcapping damage at some point in the pipeline means that building into that extreme simply means you hit diminishing returns (like you already do with stats), and thus have to actually play the game.
a build that goes all-in to a single thing to deal obscene, possibly even fight-ending amounts of damage in one action is not exactly healthy for the game, just like a build that goes all-in to ensure that nobody whatsoever can damage it isn't either - and nobody is going to argue that we should kill stat softcaps so you can buff DEF and RES to 100% immunity levels, for example.
there's definitely a conversation to be had about dr stacking, however, but i don't believe it's here.
(also, targeting elem. atk and swa specifically means that you level out the extreme ends of most damage sources across the game, in perpetuity. there is ALWAYS going to be a skill that is overtuned, but the ability to abuse it becomes more limited if the numbers plugged into it themselves are limited.
just focusing on patching 'the most bad thing at the time' means you're playing whack-a-mole at best. see: holy shield.)
Maybe hardcapping bonus elemental attack in combat could be the way to go
RE: Gone Nuclear - Caboozles - 11-18-2024
Just cap luminary at 99 will or so and then slap impure or other buffs that can shoot elemental attacks into the stratosphere.
Someone getting an extra 5 or 10 elemental attack off a (relatively balanced) skill isn’t the issue.
Someone waddling around with 150 pre-buff is.
RE: Gone Nuclear - Lolzytripd - 11-18-2024
(11-18-2024, 07:59 AM)Caboozles Wrote: Just cap luminary at 99 will or so and then slap impure or other buffs that can shoot elemental attacks into the stratosphere.any single luminary evoker with just the class passives in going to dip over 100 willpower I hit 109, because I get the dragon queen shoes, a priest robe, and crocodile bands
Someone getting an extra 5 or 10 elemental attack off a (relatively balanced) skill isn’t the issue.
Someone waddling around with 150 pre-buff is.
, I equip a shock collar, a thunder whistle, and a topaz staff, I have both my chest and gloves enchanted with thunderheart, this pushes me to 135-138 (on a jupiter month)
I get a free 73 lightning attack from impure element and redgull, I can easily get an additional 25% by drinking G fuel's sponsored mind enhancer, these are if anything the actual problem, the easily pushing it into the 200's and then it has the potential to go higher if any ally gives me a myriad of buffs.
elemental attack gained from buffs, either buffed will or just a buff with elemental attack, I feel could be fairly lessened severely. I however oppose any notion of nerfing anything attainable without active combat buffs, as there are large concessions in the build being made to attain that.
RE: Gone Nuclear - Snake - 11-18-2024
To be honest, I'm convinced that Impure Element is the biggest offender here. If the skill gets changed to alter only Dark ATK and Acid ATK every time the Void Assassin mitigates damage with their Voidveil passive, it'll be -60 Elemental ATK across multiple common elements, while retaining the whole theme of 'enhancing the impure elements'.
It's a tad genius, not gonna lie.
Other means of amping Elemental ATK? I'd say after Impure Element is addressed, these should be put under observation.
RE: Gone Nuclear - Caboozles - 11-18-2024
(11-18-2024, 08:17 AM)Lolzytripd Wrote:(11-18-2024, 07:59 AM)Caboozles Wrote: Just cap luminary at 99 will or so and then slap impure or other buffs that can shoot elemental attacks into the stratosphere.any single luminary evoker with just the class passives in going to dip over 100 willpower I hit 109, because I get the dragon queen shoes, a priest robe, and crocodile bands
Someone getting an extra 5 or 10 elemental attack off a (relatively balanced) skill isn’t the issue.
Someone waddling around with 150 pre-buff is.
, I equip a shock collar, a thunder whistle, and a topaz staff, I have both my chest and gloves enchanted with thunderheart, this pushes me to 135-138 (on a jupiter month)
I get a free 73 lightning attack from impure element and redgull, I can easily get an additional 25% by drinking G fuel's sponsored mind enhancer, these are if anything the actual problem, the easily pushing it into the 200's and then it has the potential to go higher if any ally gives me a myriad of buffs.
elemental attack gained from buffs, either buffed will or just a buff with elemental attack, I feel could be fairly lessened severely. I however oppose any notion of nerfing anything attainable without active combat buffs, as there are large concessions in the build being made to attain that.
The only “problem” with luminary is that unlike everything else in this game, there are no diminishing returns. Since it works off unscaled wil, you either gut luminary, or set a cap so people can still gain that (rather significant) buff of an extra 20+ elemental attack, or accept that you have to nerf six things instead of just one.
RE: Gone Nuclear - Lolzytripd - 11-18-2024
(11-18-2024, 04:41 PM)Caboozles Wrote:the whole trade off of the trait is Give up willpower's bonus to every other element, for the opportunity to chase one element to the maximum. If you simply knee cap luminary I promise you it will do nothing for egregious sound attack builds and that for multiple elements, as an example fire and ice, can easily exceed 180 without luminary, You could even run a build with Frost collar and Skyburn, able to bounce between either element on demand.(11-18-2024, 08:17 AM)Lolzytripd Wrote:(11-18-2024, 07:59 AM)Caboozles Wrote: Just cap luminary at 99 will or so and then slap impure or other buffs that can shoot elemental attacks into the stratosphere.any single luminary evoker with just the class passives in going to dip over 100 willpower I hit 109, because I get the dragon queen shoes, a priest robe, and crocodile bands
Someone getting an extra 5 or 10 elemental attack off a (relatively balanced) skill isn’t the issue.
Someone waddling around with 150 pre-buff is.
, I equip a shock collar, a thunder whistle, and a topaz staff, I have both my chest and gloves enchanted with thunderheart, this pushes me to 135-138 (on a jupiter month)
I get a free 73 lightning attack from impure element and redgull, I can easily get an additional 25% by drinking G fuel's sponsored mind enhancer, these are if anything the actual problem, the easily pushing it into the 200's and then it has the potential to go higher if any ally gives me a myriad of buffs.
elemental attack gained from buffs, either buffed will or just a buff with elemental attack, I feel could be fairly lessened severely. I however oppose any notion of nerfing anything attainable without active combat buffs, as there are large concessions in the build being made to attain that.
The only “problem” with luminary is that unlike everything else in this game, there are no diminishing returns. Since it works off unscaled wil, you either gut luminary, or set a cap so people can still gain that (rather significant) buff of an extra 20+ elemental attack, or accept that you have to nerf six things instead of just one.
RE: Gone Nuclear - Slydria - 11-18-2024
I think we're just talking in circles here. While I agree with the premise of the Autumn's post, it'd probably just be easier to hit the thing we all agree is an issue: Impure Element.
If changing it completely is not in the cards, I'd suggest tweaking it like so:
- When you take Fire, Ice, Earth, Wind or Lightning Damage, gain Impure Element of that type (LV X) until the end of the round, increasing that element's ATK by LV. X = 75% of the elemental damage you take. Minimum LV = 15, Maximum LV = Current Void Energy.
- Recoil damage is removed.
Basically what this does is simple, the current strategy around Impure Element would only give +15 Elemental ATK instead of +60. Whereas, if you take 90+ Elemental Damage, you gain +60 Elemental ATK. This allows the itemization method to still exist in a diminished form but still allows the potential to use it as a big retaliation if you can capitalize on it, as originally designed.
The recoil is removed because frankly +15 ATK would not warrant it and I feel if you can make use of it's full potential (as a counter or with an ally dealing friendly fire to you on purpose), you're already taking damage to make it work so... I think it's fair game?
RE: Gone Nuclear - Poruku - 11-18-2024
Honestly I'd like it if impure element was changed so it's not all about inflicting damage to yourself. Maybe if it was harder to obtain the buff it would make more sense. For instance could make it so you need to inflict the damage to get it and it only lasts the current turn. At the moment it seems a bit too easy to get with ice and lightning especially
RE: Gone Nuclear - renowner - 11-23-2024
I'm also of the mind that impure element is way too strong and degenerate, and have felt this way for YEARS. It also doesn't really feel like it should be in void assassin, or really tied to the void in general. What happened to the void being the antithesis of magic? Why is it suddenly the BEST elemental magic? It can't even do darkness!
I don't think luminary element is unfair or unfun. Losing the bonus elemental attack from wil is big, and if you're going over the softcap for huge elemental attack, you're sacrificing stat points. Wheras if you'd just gone scaled 60 wil 60 whatever, you'd still have baseline 75 elemental attack anyway. Impure gives more power without sacrificing stats or other elemental attacks or requiring you to build willpower.
(Frankly I just think impure element should be removed, though that would make a lot of people upset and ruin many builds. So at this point I say just leave it as it is and reduce the bonus and self damage by half. Nerfed without ruining character designs.)